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Project 3LN1 Restoration

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by camarda, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    From what I did read it looks to be a higher spec than what @GreyImport has linked to above.

    The one you have available to you is more expensive than the Delo 400 in 20L drums, but that's not a big deal

    Relevant Specs for Delo 400 Multigrade are:
    API CI-4 Plus / API CI-4 / API SL
    ACEA E7

    Specs for Delo 400 Multigrade here
    https://www.caltex.com/content/dam/...chg-22279-delo-400-mg-sae-15w-40-051915-2.pdf

    For the Delo 400 MGX:
    API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus / SM
    ACEA E9, E7

    Full specs available via the brochure download here
    https://www.caltex.com.au/delo/400-mgx

    So it's a later spec oil, mixed fleet which means it works just fine, and is designed to be used in petrol engines also and it's the correct viscosity range

    Remember diesel oil is very high quality base stock and additives, the price is a reflection of the quantity produced

    There's also a list of manufacturer certifications for both oils - consider that is in engines that can cost $100K+ to overhaul, these guys don't mess around with oil that might put their machinery at risk

    Don't be afraid to read a little until you his something which you don't understand then research that or ask questions

    You will find heaps of good info on bob is the oil guy also
     
    • Well said! Well said! x 1
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  2. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I dont like how the Delo doesn't have any extra's in it to help cope with it also sharing the gearbox duty's

    Here's the recommended oil's from Yamaha out of the Service manual


    The FZR250R 3LN3 Yamaha Service Manual list's ;

    10W30 for -20 degree's C up to 50 degree's C
    20W40 for -12 degree's C up to 52 degree's C
    10W50 for -25degree's C up to 60 degree's C


    I run Penrite MC 4ST 10W30 in mine

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  3. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  4. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Thanks for that, yea I was deep in the previous threads discussing oil on this site and others and couldn’t find a consensus on required specifications for these bikes. I see what you mean how this is a better spec oil though. I’ll have to decide what I do tomorrow.


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  5. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Hmm this is true, thanks, the delo does not account for gearbox extras, but once again, what are the gearbox extras and does the delo account for them better than the Penrite motorbike specific oil. Ahhhhh. I wonder if those specs are the same for the 3LN1. I assume so.


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  6. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    3LN1 oil specs are over 30 years old, each successive oil spec covers the previous as well as meeting a new requirement, progress marches on - there was a period with car oils that friction modifiers were added which could make the clutch slip.

    Normal Delo 400 Multigrade does have zinc shear protection, have you tried a few Caltex service stations? They usually have in in 4L containers
     
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  7. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Ah yes I remember you mentioned this in an old thread, the specs are very old and oil tech has come a long way. I’ll check some servos out tomorrow might even try find a depot if I can. Keep in mind I am constantly appreciative of your help and can’t wait for the rest of the stuff to arrive so I can get to work on the bike.
     
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  8. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    'Which oil' is always a contentious topic .... just like 'which tyre' or 'which coolant'

    As mentioned , whats recommended in the manual all those years ago doesnt mean much these days, but u are right by asking here as at least u will get experienced answers or opinions or wateva u want to call them , and that hopefully will give u some direction

    That new spec Delo looks like it will be my next choice when my current stash runs out
    Ive used that Delo I posted in my 3LN1 for like 7 years ... in my old Landcruiser 4.5L petrol for about 4 years ... they run smoother and quieter and it runs 'clean' for longer than other oils Ive used
    Another member here also runs it in his cars and a Triumph Sprint bike and in FZRs before.
    Its also supposedly made from the highest quality crude , so it will do me just fine
     
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  9. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    FWIW - I had this product bookmarked to try out in the fizzer because 30W oil is perfectly acceptable
    https://caltexlubricants.com.au/delo/product/?cx=3421

    Only available in 20L drums though - that's 9 oil changes for a fizzer
    It is also available in 15W-40 for anyone using it in multiple different vehicles which require that viscosity oil

    I've researched the shear protection additives because of the transmission chomp Delo 400 Multigrade 15W-40 lists 0.1-2%, whereas the Delo 400 XLE lists 0.083%

    EDIT for clarity; from my understanding, it's zinc which is the shear protection additive, so the above is the zinc percentages as Zinc alkyl dithiophosphate in the safety data sheets

    Delo 400 Multigrade - Australian spec
    http://www.marquisoil.com/data/cms/files/Delo_400_Multigrade_SAE_15W-40-SDS(3).pdf

    Delo 400 XLE - New Zealand spec - note the 10W-40 as I cannot find an SDS for XLE on an Australian site
    https://caltex.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Delo-400-XLE-HD-SAE-10W-40-SDS.pdf - this one lists zinc @ 0.5-1.5%

    So it looks that zinc percentage may differ with a changing or evolving specification over time, or be subject to different regulations depending on the specific market

    Not sure if that is a significant enough difference from a potential 0.1% Delo 400 Multigrade and 0.08% Delo 400 XLE

    At this point, considering the power output of the fizzer, I'm thinking it's not of significant importance if the oil is changed regularly - this isn't about some guy saying HEY I just managed 20K kms between oil changes on my bike, to which I would shake my head and say WHY?

    I seem to recall reading up on the synthetic blends: Their purpose is so that they use synthetics for the low viscosity end for cold starts, which means they use less VII's (viscosity index improvers) which are among the additives which break down over time lowering the upper region of protection, i.e. 40W becomes something less as the oil degrades

    And with all of this discussion it's easy to lose sight of the fact that a good oil change schedule is the most important factor, use a good quality oil - not the $12 for 5 Litres from the supermarket - and be happy
     
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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  10. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    I think it’s Delo 400 MGX. What exactly is the shear protection additive you are referring to so I can check the difference with MGX vs Multigrade. I’m starting to assume MGX might stand for multigrade X.


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  11. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Completely understand your point. I guess it’s just trial and error and general experienced consensus that leads towards the best solution.


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  12. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Don't forget that a lot of tractors, earthmoving, etc use oil as a transmission/hydraulic lubricant so I think the Delo would be fine in a bike with relativity low transmission loadings compared to a tractor in a paddock heavy pulling a plough all day.
     
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  13. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    edited the above post, but for clarity I THINK it's Zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate which is the shear protection

    Happy to be corrected on that statement and I promise I'm not going to have a tantrum and cry if I'm wrong
     
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  14. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Ah yea the classic zinc coordination compounds( I made some of these across my chemistry degree). I think the reason for the reduction is because zinc and phosphorous emissions can damage catalytic converters but I feel like the slight reduction is not enough to have impaired anti wear effects. I might end up going for the MGX in the end haha, here’s hoping I don’t kill the engine with it.


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  15. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Hey guys, still waiting on other parts in the mail while I work on the brakes but I have run into an issue with the front master cylinder. The piston is completely ceased in place and will not come out no matter how hard i pull. The circlip was easy to remove however was covered in gunked up brake fluid. I have tried soaking the hole in wd40, brake cleaner and even acetone. At this point i'm assuming that even if i manage to get the piston out, the bore will be so pitted that it will be beyond repair. Any ideas on aftermarket front master cylinders you guys have used for the fzr 250 that work well or any known ways of removing the piston. Advice is appreciated. @maelstrom @ruckusman @GreyImport @my67xr @Murdo


    92988891_274225483579364_2486586361289637888_n.jpg
     
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  16. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    There will possibly be a small dimple in the front of the cylinder in line with the bore/piston. Drill a 4mm hole through the cylinder so you can get a pin punch through to drive the piston out of the cylinder. If bore is ok (hopefully), you can either reweld the hole or tap for a 5mm screw with sealing washer. If the bore is beyond use then you have lost nothing. Check Aliexpress for new complete master cylinders.
    Eg; https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
     
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  17. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    It may just be blocked from built up dried fluid, any water in there will have perhaps rusted the spring, but not attacked the piston and bore.

    What about washing it thoroughly with the reservoir lid off and empty in hot soapy water then putting it into a saucepan on the stove with just a dash of vinegar in water and seeing if that loosens it.

    You could also try soaking it in shellite which is a non polar solvent, isn't too volatile so doesn't evaporate to quickly and it doesn't absorb water and won't damage anything

    Anyway, food for thought
     
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  18. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Do you have a compressor ?
    Try blowing it out with an air gun into the banjo thread, but cover the end of the cylinder with a thick rag so the piston doesn't blow across the room
     
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  19. camarda

    camarda Active Member

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    Thanks for the advice guys, tried air compressor and heat etc. Ended up using a self tapping roofing screw to get a better hold on the piston and managed to get it out (the only local replacement is a kit from Yamaha dealership that includes the piston spring etc. so doesn’t matter that I destroyed it. $100 though ) The bore looks ok just some dried up **** on the inside it seems.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    PSST, I've got one downstairs I think that I can send you, pretty sure it made it's way back with me from Victoria over the weekend

    I'll check tomorrow
     
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