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Pinned Rusty fuel tank electrolysis

Discussion in 'Tech Tips' started by ruckusman, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK Guys,
    This part was the last piece of the puzzle to get my Fizzer back on the road.

    Filthy carbs got that way because of crud in the fuel tank.

    Simple process...

    You need a battery charger and some sodium carbonate which comes from the washing powder section at the supermarket and some un-chromed and un-galvanised steel - some suggest concrete rebar, I used some square hollow section I had to hand.

    IMG_20131207_181723.jpg

    The recipe is approx 25 grams sodium carbonate to ~4 litres of water (US 1 Gallon) - no point adding extra as it doesn't affect the reaction rate.

    I'm using a piece of plumbing pipe adaptor to lower the scarificial anode into the tank

    IMG_20131207_181223.jpg

    You want to make certain that all traces of fuel and anything, so get a hose and some degreaser and get it clean.

    The tank of plugged at the bottom with a piece aluminium and some gasket paper.

    IMG_20131207_181204.jpg

    Once done, it's as easy as this.

    The plumbing adaptor goes into the throat of the tank

    IMG_20131207_181247.jpg

    Insert some unchromed steel into the tank. This is important because anything chromed will produce toxic chrome by-products.

    IMG_20131207_181555.jpg

    The tank is filled with water, I use hot water to speed the process along

    Then the steel is inserted into the tank and the battery charger connected, negative to the actual tank and positive to the steel.

    IMG_20131207_181717.jpg

    That's it.

    I've had to empty, clean and refill mine about 10 times as the previous sealer is peeling off inside as the electrolytic process outgasses. I'm having to keep going because until the rest of the previous sealer has flaked off anything over the top will fail and I'll be re-doing this again way too soon.

    peace out
     
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  2. cal

    cal Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    what is this sorcery!!??
     
  3. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    This is high school chemistry in action and a damn useful application it is too - hooray for Mr Longworth (My high school chemistry teacher) awesome teacher

    BTW that top section of the tank that you can see was covered with a slightly more than surface rust patina - this tank had been left open for literally years, the few dark spots you can se were quite rusty and now that dark discolouration is level and the black is about ready to rub off

    RUST GONE

    peace out
     
  4. Jim

    Jim Active Member

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    Make sure you don't reverse the polarity. + to the steel bar, - to tank is the correct polarity. If you reverse it, it'll corrode like you won't believe. Also don't use stainless steel, it contains chromium.

    I've done this in the past and it removes rust really well. However, you will still need to treat/seal the tank as it's now bare metal after this process. If you don't, it'll go back to its rusty ways within a year.

    You might need to clean the bar every few hours, depending on how bad the corrosion is. Ensure the steel bar (sacrificial anode) does not touch the bottom of the tank, you need to insulate it. I just cut up an old inner tube and cable tied it on, used the same thing to insulate the filler neck contact point.
     
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  5. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Wow that takes me back. Honestly never thought of doing this but why the hell not? If it works I'll give it a shot rather than playing with too many acids :)

    Where did you attach the -ive on the tank? Underneath on the rib? It has to touch the bare metal, right?
     
  6. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I made a gasket with aluminium plate over the top to seal the fuel outlet underneath, I attached a wire underneath one of the bolts holding the aluminium plate easy peasy

    I don't remember how many flushes and fresh solution cycles I did, one tip is to fill with hot water to speed the reaction, it cools quickly enough, no point in increasing the solution concentration however as it doesn't have an effect on the speed of the reaction
     
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  7. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Ah, good advice. I'll get onto this, grabbed a bit of scrap mild steel from work today to get started.

    I suppose I'm in no rush so if I have to flush it a few times it's not a big drama. Did you buy a washing powder that was sodium carbonate based? Or did you buy sodium carbonate on its own? I'll have to look at the local shop but i don't recall ever seeing it in pure form there.
     
  8. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Sodium carbonate is available in pure form from the washing power section in even small woolworths stores, should be available in all reasonably sized supermarkets. For memory it's just called washing soda 500gm or 1kg bags.

    One thing I had to do regularly was lift the steel out and scrub off the rust to give it a clean reaction surface.
    I also put a hole in the plumbing adaptor, which you can see in the pic, and fed some small plastic tube through and into the upper section of the tank which lies above the level of the fuel cap recess to permit the gas produced to exit otherwise the fluid level slowly rises and spills out
     
  9. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Hmm nope. Been to two now, bicarbonate is easy or percarbonate (as active ingredient in a laundry powder) but can't find it in pure form. This may need a bunnings visit...
     
  10. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    IMG_3985.JPG IMG_3984.JPG Winner winner chicken dinner. Note only available in woolies as far as I could see (not in the two coles I went to!) lucky 3rd visit... $4.00
     
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  11. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    That's the business
     
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  12. Goz007

    Goz007 Active Member

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    any suggestions on what u coat/seal the tank with once finished the cleaning procedure?
     
  13. Goz007

    Goz007 Active Member

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    thumbs up on the post as well.....very interesting
     
  14. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Some have used POR15 I believe and there's another product that I've seen mentioned but I cannot recall it's name
     
  15. DannoXYZ

    DannoXYZ Well-Known Member

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    There’s also gas-tank sealers from:

    - Red-kote
    - Kreem
    - Caswell
    - KBS
    - Eastwood
    - Aircraft Spruce
    - Northern Radiator

    a lot of people have just used fibreglass resin slightly diluted with acetone.
     
  16. JohnRcbr

    JohnRcbr Active Member

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    I have used Caswell and Por15 with good results. You have less time to play with the Caswell but it has a nice finish. Por15 can be bought as just the sealer or as a kit that incudes cleaner, rust remover and sealant.
     
  17. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    A quick google on polyester resin suitability for fuel tanks gave me this.

    https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/which-resin-to-build-ethanol-safe-gasoline-tanks.44720/

    I googled polyester resin because it's what I used to make surfboards with, although I did play with the exotic stuff such as vinyl ester resin decades ago - vinyl ester is amazing for most of it's qualities, performs as good as if not better than some of the most expensive epoxies.

    Reason that I am mentioning it, it seems to get a passing grade, and unsurprisingly, ethanol is the problem it seems.

    If you've got anyone nearby that build boats including fuel tanks, you may pick up something suitable from them quit easily if there's any difficulty getting a polyurethane sealer

    Seems there's a legion of scientists with test tubes out there mixing up amazing varieties of resins
     
  18. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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  19. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Guys,

    Found another use for the electrolysis - recovered these brake discs very nicely

    I ran this one at a higher concentration of carbonate with a trick - I put the brake disc into a wok and had it on lowish heat on the stove - the water was hot but not boiling.

    I also used steelos as the sacrificial anode put into a cut down bottle propped into the middle of the disc - the extra surface area of the steelo really helps to speed the reaction.

    Periodically I took the disc out and washed it in the sink using a small toothbrush size wire brush on the crevices and a foam backed non-abrasive green scourer.

    Added bonus is that the bubbly paint on the inner disc carrier all came off of it's own accord an it's darkened slightly which is fine as I am going to paint it with this shadow chrome paint.

    https://www.repco.com.au/en/car-car...ome-black-out-coating-311g-shd1000/p/A9514721

    I haven't yet put them through vinegar which may raise the shine - the black discolouration may disappear, there isn't however any significant pitting.
    The black residue is the remains of the electrolytic reaction recovering the rust and converting it back to iron.

    I was using a multipurpose RC battery charger set on digital power @10 volts which was pulling about 6 amps. Took a few hours but it was worth it IMO.

    Internet rules: Here's the pictures with the one completed disc and the second one yet to go into the soup - they were both as bad as eachother

    top.jpg bottom.jpg
     
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    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  20. driftwood

    driftwood Well-Known Member

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    I wasted my time at school on subjects like sheetmetal, not chem (but not to a std of making a gal tank). Would zinc anode be better/dumber?
     

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