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Across' first Canberra winter - not coping with the cold :(

Discussion in 'Suzuki 250cc In-line 4's' started by sarahb, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    What you say makes sense, so you have a hypothesis at least, now it looks like your options have narrowed and those carburettors are coming off, it may take nothing more then blowing them out with compressed air if blocked pilot jets are the problem.

    Most screws on the carburettor body - bowl particularly, will be very tight and require a JIS screwdriver or impact driver with posidrive bit to remove without damage

    It's not as daunting as you may be feeling, be methodical and remember to check things and change nothing, or only change one thing at a time and keep notes, remember to re-tighten carb boot seals properly when re-installing
     
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  2. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Checking the pilot jet's are open might not be too hard, depending on what carby's are on it it might be as easy as taking the fuel bowl off and unscrew the pilot jet while leaving the carby's fitted to the bike.
    Then you can look through it to see if you can see light through the hole.
    Poke a single strand of copper wire through it a few time's and then if it's good refit it, then the fuel bowl, and then move on to the next carby

    Carb's look to be a pair of BSW27 Mikuni's, pilot jet is #36 in the pic here it should have a #30 marking on it
    https://www.scribd.com/document/111...b-Break-Down-With-Totals-Listed-for-Both-Carb

    There's a thread here on them too
    http://2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/mikuni-bsw27-carburetter-rebuild-kit.919/
     
  3. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    here is the location of the slow jets

    gsx250f.JPG
     
  4. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    had called a motorbike mechanic previously who i think had been away and returned my call yesterday morning so took the bike over to visit him before work. he comes highly recommended and has 30 years experience

    he's sure its not pilot jets as it runs so smoothly once its started and says the pilot jets have nothing to do with cold starts

    he recommended i take it for a 300km ride

    he thinks its compression/ o rings...
     
  5. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    compression is something which can be tested accurately - that's a simple question to answer
     
  6. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I agree. Get a compression test done. If the numbers are low, a tablespoon of oil into the cylinder from the spark plug hole, and re-test. If the number is higher than before, then the problem is worn out piston rings. If it doesn't increase, you need to look at your valve clearances
     
  7. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Does putting the choke on make any difference when trying to start it ? eg does the engine sound get deeper?
    Or when the bike is up and running, if you put the choke on does it smell rich?
    If it doesn't do either ^ i'm thinking it may have a blockage or restriction somewhere in the choke circuit or the cable might not be adjusted properly etc
    Those 2x thin brass tube's above the top of the float's look like they're the pick up's for the choke circuit.
    I'm wondering if the tube's are partly blocked, or the rubber's are split or perished on the choke plunger/needle of the choke mechanism ?
     
  8. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    no the choke works just fine.

    it has been cleaned.

    bike started this morning. it was a mild night. min 12. almost summer temps for canberra. :lolsign:

    had to pump the throttle but i got it started without the spray can. went for a 75kms ride. running so so well ironically - as in best ever. could that be due to the cylinder clean?
     
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    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  9. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I'd say it helped for sure. I think you might have worn rings, considering that as it gets colder, it gets harder and harder to start. As the temperature goes lower, metal contracts. So your pistons, cylinders, and rings will be shrinking and the gap between the rings and the bore gets wider. Translates to lower compression. If you are right on the lower limit of the spec, the hard starting in extreme cold might be a symptom.

    One really cold night in sydney (got down to zero or so), I couldn't get my FZR going no matter what I tried... Had to get to work so I roll started it down a slight hill, and it went fine after that. This was before I did the rings and head gasket.
     
  10. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    yes i've done a lot of roll starting.. easy since where i park is the top of a little hill.

    how involved/difficult is replacing the rings?
     
  11. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Very involved and not for a beginner ..... and an expensive exercise with a mechanic

    I would still be following the simple path first

    Get the carbys off and give them the once over making sure the jets are clear and everything is in order there .... and do that cable

    Or just catch the bus till summer comes :cool:
     
  12. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    Or trade in for a super sport ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Yea good thinking ...... :lolsign:
     
  14. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    off topic here... but, with my new found mechanical experience with the bike :p, i'm going to change the spark plugs on my old honda civic today... the cylinder head clean with the threebond seemed to have such a good effect on the running of the across engine i wonder if i can do the exact same process on the car?
     
  15. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Fuel. Compression. Spark - these are the "big 3".

    You've got fuel because it runs. You've obviously got spark - to be able to move forward you need to test compression. You could be chasing your tail with spark plugs/leads/other stuff and have completely missed the issue.

    I reckon get your mechanic to do a compression test, that will tell you whether there is a problem with rings or valves. I'd bet on the latter which is an easier job. You can buy a cheap kit for $20ish off ebay and do it yourself - the engine has to be warm but after that it's basically doing what you've already done (remove spark plugs) then screw in the gauge and see what you get when cranking. Do it twice on each cylinder (2nd time with a teaspoon of oil down the plug hole) and record your readings. If you don't have a problem at least you can rule it out...

    Something like "start you bastard" or a roll start will mask compression issues. Warm start means your metals have expanded, narrowing the gap between the rings and the pistons and improving compression. Cold starts are the opposite as has been mentioned. The fact you've done all this work is great as you're learning and probably resolving some other niggly bits but if your cold start issue remains - you are probably looking in the wrong place still...

    :)
     
  16. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Clean your throttle body and iac in your Civic (providing it's an injected engine)
    It will fix idle speed fluctuation's, slow returning to idle when stopping and off idle flat spot's etc etc
    Make sure you clean the brass throttle butterfly on both side's, and the bore of the throttle body as best you can
    Get another tin of Threebond Engine Conditioner and some decent paper towel's to wipe away the oil/carbon etc. spray some down through the intake manifold too, even in the spark plug hole's like you did on the Across
    It'll be slightly harder to start, and will chug out some black smoke as it start's and burn's out all the cleaner and gunk etc, so do it on a windy day to stop it choking your neighbour's etc

     
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  17. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    thats great my67xr thanks for that
     
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