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Project Bought a ZXR250C.

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Linkin, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I can make a loom at work easily enough, but I did need the connectors. Anyway I've got it all sorted for under $100, how goods' that :thumb_ups:
     
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  2. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I found a page while searching for info that say's the way we have them wired up currently (in series) the coil's are only getting 65% power to them.
    But comparing the COP coil's wired in series to the oem coil's, the COP's are still making more power than the oem's.

    I found a mod that add's a relay and you get the full 100% power to the coil's
    I'll post up the detail's when i get a chance
     
  3. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Sounds good
     
  4. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Got my bike at work, went in today and finally got started on the long list of items needing attention.

    EtO0hUv.jpg

    First up was the tyre valves. Old ones out and new 90 degree ones in.

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    Next was the reg/rec. The SH847 'super kit' comes with premade wiring from roadstercycle. All I had to do was cut the 3 yellow stator wires off the original reg/rec plug, solder them to the new premade connector, and then connect the other premade connector to the battery. Heatshrink and tape over the solder joins for the 3 stator phases, and tape off the old reg/rec plug. Job done. Charging voltage is a healthy 14.4v at 5000rpm.

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    I had another ZXR250 motor picked up from @kiffsta 's business and delivered to work. My next job was a mock fit of the CBR1000RR (Denso 12790-4840) coils I have, so I used the spare motor. My concern was that the 12790-4400 coils that @my67xr used on his FZR250 3LN3 would be too short for the ZXR. The CBR1000RR ones are longer, but both are too long.

    9AQlH0i.jpg

    As you can see, the coils I have are far too long, and would foul against the radiator fan shroud and potentially the fan itself. I took some measurements to see what size coils I will need (see coil on plug thread).

    Last job for the day was the clutch. I was armed with 4x new 1.6mm steel plates, 4x new 2mm plates, 5x new fibre plates, new springs, and a gasket.

    The servical manual ended up being f*cken useless, as was the existing clutch stack arrangement (steel against steel and two washers under each spring in the pressure plate). I followed the manual and did fibre > 2mm plate > fibre > 1.6mm plate > fibre etc and ended up with the pressure plate fully seated, but not touching the last offset fibre plate in the basket, even with spring pressure. No good.

    My final arrangement was using new fibre plates and 2mm steel plates only. I reused one old 2mm plate (5 in total). The last fibre plate was offset as the manual said to do it. I used only 1 washer underneath each new spring. With this arrangement everything works as expected, but I had completely slacken the clutch cable on both ends, and then make minor adjustments to get enough free play at the lever to prevent slippage.

    I got a colleague at work to test ride it and he gave it two thumbs up.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  5. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Back in at work on my own time again today, and discovered an issue with the setup for the SH847 reg/rec. The auto reset circuit breaker has drained my battery to 11.48v after one week. I am going to have to wire it into the ignition switch to stop this.

    No major work done to the bike today, just greased the throttle tube and cables, then made up this loom for the new coils while the battery is on charge. Just waiting for the Ninja 300 coils to arrive so I can fit them and get the setup working OK.

    YtzcZif.jpg
     
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  6. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    When you wired the circuit breaker to the battery, is that different to standard?
    Inside the circuit breaker is 2x stainless steel strap's fixed at one end, and on the other they sit on a copper post.
    When the circuit draw's too much current the stainless strip's heat up and bend up and away from the copper post, cutting the circuit/power.
    There's no electronic's in them.
     
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  7. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    What was supplied from roadstercycle was a pre-made harness going straight from the reg/rec to the battery using ring terminals. Their installation instructions said to hook it up to the battery which is what I've done.

    SH847%20irf.jpg

    The circuit breaker emits an audible click when connected or disconnected from the battery.
     
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  8. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I reckon you have a short in your electrical somewhere.
    The circuit breaker's are a block of black plastic with 2 threaded post's in, and on the inside have the bi-metallic bar's with 1 fixed and the other is spring loaded until it heat's up, measure across the 2x terminal post's, you'll get 0 Ohm's resistance.
    They will only click if there's a short and something is drawing more than 30 amp's or 40 amp's depending on which one is used, and are a normally closed type switch

    20170909_221126.jpg
     
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  9. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    You were right, I had a short alright. I ended up tracing it back to the stator - one phase is shorted to ground.

    The click I was hearing also wasn't the circuit breaker - it was the junction box.

    I installed a new battery today and have left it disconnected after I finished working on the bike so I don't drain it

    I had to redo the clutch plate stack as I had it wrong. For any who need to know, the ZXR clutch does indeed run metal plates against metal plates. Chamfered edges in towards the motor, sharp edges facing out.

    The correct arrange is as follows:

    Clutch basket - fibre plate - thick steel and a thin steel - fibre plate - thin steel and a thick steel - fibre plate - etc.

    You repeat that until you get to the last fibre plate, which is installed offset in the basket. The basket also runs counter-clockwise, opposite to crankshaft rotation

    After re-reading the manual it now makes sense, but the wording is not perfectly clear.

    I also got the ninja 300 coils and my made up looms in, they seem to work with no issues, but long term testing will see if I fry my TCI box or not. The resistance values are within the range so it should be OK.

    oCMzVQA.jpg
     
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  10. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Pulled the stator out on my lunch break at work today. Apart from the insulation cracking and falling off in various places, it didn't look obviously burnt or physically damaged.

    Have sent it off to see if it can be repaired and how much it will cost me.
     
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  11. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Got a call from the rewinding mob. Said it tested fine. I doubt that, but have got them to send it back and I will evaluate my options (inc new stator @ $260 USD - ouch)
     
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  12. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    New stator arrived in time for the weekend. The one that the local Kawasaki dealer said "that bike isn't real and the part number doesn't exist" - well, I beg to differ!

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    Rainy and miserable weather, perfect for working on bikes in a nice warm workshop tomorrow.

    Note the neutral light and water temp sensor plugs are a part of this sub-harness. I believe that my original stator was OK, and that the short is in the harness somewhere, as when I jiggle the green neutral light wire, the light on the dash will flicker and go out, bike stalling, if I move it too much.

    Since I don't want to take off the airbox for the 50th time (Kawasaki, in their infinite wisdom, decided to route this plug UNDER the airbox to the right hand side of the bike), I plan to chop leads off and bypass the main wiring loom.
     
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  13. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I wouldn't chop the wires. Nice new wires and you will make a point for possible failure in the future.
     
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  14. sharky

    sharky Well-Known Member

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    I run my wires under the vacuum & rad hoses then around the airbox. I also remove the plug at the bottom of the airbox that goes over the breather for easier installation each time, if the airbox is hard to fit in, the carbs usually need to be slightly angled forward even though they look right. 20171004_173732.jpg
     
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  15. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK. Have fitted new stator and bypassed the loom (for the stator phases only) in case it was causing the short. Junction box is not clicking when disconnecting battery or reg/rec or stator, so that short is no longer present.

    Charging system is working well now, getting a solid 14.4v at 2,000rpm, but I have lost the headlight entirely. Will have to look at the wiring diagram. Suspect that stupid junction box, but with the stock reg/rec, disconnecting it from the harness kills the headlight too.

    Thinking I will run the headlight to come on with the ignition.
     
  16. Wobblysauce

    Wobblysauce Active Member

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    All fun and games until you are trying to find a short.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Yep. With the standard setup, there is a 6th wire on the reg/rec, part of the charging/headlight sense circuit. Headlight still worked before I bypassed the harness.

    I pulled apart the junction box and looked at the wiring diagram. Really messy design. Headlight circuit goes through ignition switch, starter relay, fused in the junction box, relay in the junction box, then to hi/low switch with the reg/rec charging sense circuit in there somewhere.

    Suspect I have upset the 12v supply to the headlight relay by bypassing the harness. Something must be expecting a signal off the stator leads in the harness.
     
  18. Wobblysauce

    Wobblysauce Active Member

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    For ignition on/starting, I was just looking around at just bypassing the headlights.. more power to crank it over with out the drain then for it to be idle, then lights on.

    Thinking just a flick switch mounted somewhere.
     
  19. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    What my original stator looks like

    bHqzHYx.jpg

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  20. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    The instructions for the SH847 said that some Kawasakis that use 6 pin reg/recs (like the ZXR), for the headlight to work, the white wire from the original reg/rec plug has to be spliced into one of the leads coming from the stator. So I will go and do that next chance I get.

    What I don't get is how that works... as far as I can tell from the wiring diagrams for the charging system and headlight, that white wire just goes to the positive of the battery, which then becomes part of the headlight circuit (going through the 30a fuse on the starter relay, then through to the headlight fuse and relay inside the junction box). Why do we want to tap an AC output and connect it to the battery which is DC? Does the TCI pick up that AC signal and switch the headlight relay on?

    I'm also not sure how it works on the original reg/rec, is the white wire just bridged to a stator lead internally? Enlighten me.

    Diagrams

    IAkK6og.png

    Fkb0NFy.png
     

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