1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Help CB250rs kick start lever and throttle cable routing

Discussion in 'Honda 250cc Singles' started by Mike_T, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    Hi All,

    recently picked up a CB250rs (only 8000 miles on the clock) and have been working through minor issues with the bike (it had been stored for 20 years before being pit back on the road), and have a couple of probably simple questions. Anyone got any tips on this:-

    Kick start level - it broke! Mechanism is fine, but the actual level where it mounts to the swivel is split. These seem a bit hard to source. Anyone tried kick starts from alternative bikes? Or anyone know where to find one?

    Throttle cables - I've changed these as throttle was very stiff on hard turns. But my throttle still won't release freely on a hard right turn (Pulling the cables tight), and is not perfect on hard left either (the slack cables end up with a bend). I can't work out the best routing for these - anyone got a picture of the correct routing? I'm currently going in front of the right stanchion, and behing the left stanchion, before tucking under the tank. I've tried other options, but can't find a happy solution!

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  2. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,716
    Likes Received:
    3,815
    Trophy Points:
    998
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    Maico 250, Royal Enfield 250, CF 250 V5 and 650TK, XL250, CBR250, ZZR250 plus a few others.
    Does the manual show where it should go?
     
  3. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sydney
    My Bike:
    1987 Yamaha SRX250, Honda 1975 CB400F
    I am with @Murdo, all the manuals I have show cable routing as well as electrical routing.. If you dont have a manual there should be one in the resource section here.. all you need to do is make a small donation to gain access to all the info in there.
     
  4. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    Thanks for the replies.

    The owners manual doesn't have routing, and neither does the haynes manual, but perhaps the shop manual does, I'll take a look.
    For reference in case anyone else follows this thread, after posting I found this:
    https://fredbuildsbikes.wordpress.c...eader-question-cb250rs-control-cable-routing/
    which does have a low res image from a manual with routing that looks to be roughly as I described (but doesn't work well for me).
    Interestingly I notice in the video itself that Fred has his throttle cables going over the top of the yoke (not as in the diagram).... I might try this as it might avoid tightness around the stanchions.

    Kick start, I'm off outside to measure up in the British winter to decide if something like this will fit:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-16mm-...0cc-250cc-Honda-Cg125-Motorcycle/143011459041
    Worth a try at the price, but if anyone spots this thread and has experience of alternative kicks for a CB250rs I'm keen to hear.

    Thanks again,
    Mike
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

    Messages:
    7,935
    Likes Received:
    4,728
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Troublemaker
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Suzuki GSX250 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,716
    Likes Received:
    3,815
    Trophy Points:
    998
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    Maico 250, Royal Enfield 250, CF 250 V5 and 650TK, XL250, CBR250, ZZR250 plus a few others.
    From the above Fred's picture, I would try putting the cables above the bottom fork clamp behind the fork leg and see if that fixes the problem. You may have the wrong (too short) cables fitted too.
    If the kick start splines are the same and it clears the frame/muffler then it should work good.
     
  7. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    Thanks again for the replies.
    I think I tried the throttle cables behind the right fork leg to give more slack, but then on full left lock the extra cable slack gave it a too sharp bend out the left side, resulting in stiff operation. But I probably just need to try more options (it's a bit of a pain getting the cables on and off to reroute and then find it's no better), unless Fred or someone has gone through the same process and can save me time.
    I did replace the cables with new aftermarket ones as I thought the old might be kinked, and the new seem the same length as the old, but both sets may be not quite original length.

    Having now checked the kickstart on my bike, the CB250rs has the right 16mm spline, and the one I linked looks like it comes out wide so I'll try it and see (and post back here in case it's a useful reference). Not covinced it looks great quality in the long term, but will get be rolling until a genuine one pops up.

    Thanks again,
    Mike
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1,795
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's, 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G
    With the pitbike kick starter try and find a Forged kickstart they are much stronger than the one you linked.
    There are a lot of different length kickstarter available (180mm to 295mm) and a few different offset's, some sit straight up with no offset and some offset the lever up to 20mm away from the engine case so help if it has tight clearance's
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. TechHeadFred

    TechHeadFred Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Systems Engineer
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    2007 CBF250F, 2004 KLR650, 1992 FZR400, 2 x CB250RS (1980 and 1982),
    Hi Mike, glad you found my blog useful!

    I have some older posts where I removed and replaced the carburetor and the throttle cables in the process, so I'll find you the links to them.

    Cheers,

    TechHeadFred
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. TechHeadFred

    TechHeadFred Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Systems Engineer
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    2007 CBF250F, 2004 KLR650, 1992 FZR400, 2 x CB250RS (1980 and 1982),
    @Mike_T - In my experience if your cables are stock sized, they are a little shorter than they could be unless you route them exactly right. All the info you need should be in my blog post you linked to but the video didn't give the best angle of the section closest to the throttle control. This section is probably the most critical for your particular issue:

    I also have a spare kickstart lever I'd be willing to part with but from memory postage from Australia to the UK is hideous!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    Thanks for the tips Fred and others.
    I think your blog is going to be very valuable to me! Although I'm hoping not to do too much on this bike right away, I'm used to old bikes and expect things will come up.
    I'll play more with the routing. Looking through your old posts I notice again that your throttle cables seem to come over the top of the stanchion:
    https://fredbuildsbikes.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/20171119_203805.jpg
    (taken from your carb removal post: https://fredbuildsbikes.wordpress.com/2017/11/20/forward-planning-and-removing-sylvies-carburetor/ )
    I'll see if that looks like an option, as well as trying to match the exact routing from the diagram. I just need to find the time to take them on and off a few times to get the best result.

    Thanks for the offer of the kickstart, as you say postage from Australia is probably a killer. I'll play with the cheap aftermarket ebay one for now to see how tight exhaust clearances are, but as noted I'll try and find a proper forged one when I can, either waiting for a cb250rs one to appear or keep looking at ones from other bikes (the aftermarket ones look low quality cast ones).

    Mike
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. TechHeadFred

    TechHeadFred Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Systems Engineer
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    2007 CBF250F, 2004 KLR650, 1992 FZR400, 2 x CB250RS (1980 and 1982),
    Hi Mike,

    You've helped me notice a mistake in that post - Sylvie is my CBF250, that should have said Scarlet!

    Erica (the bike in the linked photo) is my second/"bitzer" CB250RS, technically a CB250RS-C from the livery but rebuilt with mostly CB250RS-A parts.

    I've taken the throttle cables off three of these bikes so many times that I think I've either gotten lazy or found a method that worked with the cable lengths I had. Happy to check how the cables are currently routed on both "complete" bikes and take some photos with the tanks off if that helps?

    I've also noticed the are two different kickstart levers I've come across - one chromed and one bare metal. The same engine was used in the XL250S with a 2-to-1 exhaust and slightly different carb (a Keihin PD70 with different jetting), so some parts are interchangeable between the two - maybe the kickstart lever comes under this category?

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. TechHeadFred

    TechHeadFred Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Systems Engineer
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    2007 CBF250F, 2004 KLR650, 1992 FZR400, 2 x CB250RS (1980 and 1982),
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  14. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    Thanks again for the tips.

    Some solution details in case anyone else looks at this thread later:

    Throttle cables (I'll come to kick starter in the next post.)
    I've sorted the routing thanks to the info and diagrams from Fred, and noticing his (intentional?) trick of putting them over the top of the stanchion, and having time to play with enough options until it worked.
    In case anyone else follows this, I'll post pics below. But basically, if placing my (aftermarket) cables as per the manual and putting through the frame as Fred shows they end up too tight on full right turn - actually pulling the carb around on it's rubbers. Alternate routing behind the stanchion ends up with too much slack, that bows out and gives too tight a bend on full left turn and sticks again. However, the combination of over the top of the stanchions and through the frame when combined with making sure the cable inners have plenty of free play seems to give the right amount of slack and tidy routing.
    Actually still get slight stiffness on full left lock, but barely noticeable after letting everything settle into place.

    So, routing like this:-
    DSC_0531.jpg
    an overview in case you can see anything.

    DSC_0532.jpg
    from the carb, through the frame as Fred says, neatly tucked in (that's the choke cable on the near side of the throttle cables less neatly laid).

    DSC_0533.jpg
    through the guides and up into the head (watch out they aren't snagging on the steering lock when you steer - seems OK once all fitted in but I'll keep on eye on this)

    DSC_0535.jpg popping out over the top of the right stanchion to give the slack needed.

    Slacken off the cable to throttle nuts to let the cable find it's place (and then retighten), allow enough cable inner slack, and it worked for me!

    DSC_0541.jpg
    And one with the tank etc back on because it's rude to only show her naked.

    Thanks for the tips, hopefully this thread is of use to someone else in the future.

    next post - my kick start investigations.....
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Nice Work Nice Work x 2
  15. TechHeadFred

    TechHeadFred Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Systems Engineer
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    2007 CBF250F, 2004 KLR650, 1992 FZR400, 2 x CB250RS (1980 and 1982),
    @Mike_T Glad I could help - I'm honestly not sure if my throttle cables are original or aftermarket at this point!
    I'm keen to hear how you went with the kickstart lever, as it seems at least one of mine isn't the original part (even though it works).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    CB250rs kick start options
    So, the CB250rs kick start part number 28300428871 is claimed to only be used on the 250rs
    https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb250rs...55/arm-kick-starter_28300471000/#.XDep3M3gp9A
    15 models of the RS listed, including the 1982 d.
    So no direct alternative bike to search for to find a direct oem part.

    I measured it as a 16mm spline, so tried something listed for a cg125 with 16mm spline, of a similar shape:
    DSC_0544.jpg But, it turns out the cb250rs isn't actually 16mm..... close but not quite, I thought about hammering it on but wisely decided to be restrained. I now measure the spline more carefully as something like 17mm and 32 splines. And after some searching around, it seems they are a little odd and hard to find.

    The XL250S idea is a good one..... but realising diffent years seem to have different sizes I got worried.
    The guys here have an interesting discussion of shaft size on some XL and XRs.
    https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1243102-kick-start-shaft-sizes/
    This pic gives a useful summary of some of them.
    https://thumpertalk.com/uploads/mon...humb.PNG.77be7ac1a83b754ce22a51c409f4cd79.PNG
    Anyway, the shaft is pretty unusual.

    I counted 32 splines on mine and 17mm diameter (may actually be 16.5mm) which no one seems to describe on generic parts.

    Realising they aren't all the same, how to find which ones are definitely compatible shaft size? Check the shaft part number and see where it's used:-
    https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb250rs...355/spdl-kick-start_28250428030/#.XDdwHM3gp9A

    fits models
    CB250RS 1980 (A) AUSTRALIA
    CB250RS 1980 (A) BELGIUM
    CB250RS 1980 (A) ENGLAND
    CB250RS 1980 (A) EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
    CB250RS 1980 (A) FRANCE
    CB250RS 1980 (A) GERMANY / TYPE 1 19KW
    CB250RS 1980 (A) GERMANY / TYPE2 12.5KW
    CB250RS 1980 (A) SOUTH AFRICA
    CB250RS 1980 (A) SWEDEN
    CB250RS 1980 (A) SWITZERLAND
    CB250RS 1982 (C) AUSTRALIA
    CB250RS 1982 (C) BELGIUM
    CB250RS 1982 (C) ENGLAND
    CB250RS 1982 (C) EUROPEAN DIRECT SALE
    CB250RS 1982 (C) SOUTH AFRICA
    XL250R 1982 (C) BELGIUM
    XL250R 1982 (C) USA
    XL250R 1983 (D) USA
    XL250S 1978 USA
    XL250S 1979 (Z) USA
    XL250S 1980 (A) CANADA
    XL250S 1980 (A) USA
    XL250S 1981 (B) USA
    XL500S 1979 (Z) USA
    XL500S 1980 (A) USA
    XL500S 1981 (B) USA
    XR250 1979 (Z) USA
    XR250 1980 (A) USA
    XR250R 1981 (B)
    XR250R 1981 (B) USA
    XR250R 1982 (C)
    XR250R 1982 (C) USA
    XR250R 1983 (D)
    XR500 1979 (Z) USA
    XR500 1980 (A) USA
    XR500R 1981 (B) USA
    XR500R 1982 (C) USA

    So, yes, XL and XR 250s and even 500 kick starts from the right years will fit the shafts!

    The next problem is, the clearance of the folder foot peg etc on the cb250rs doesn't look like much - I'm delibarately looking at kicks that come out wide quickly. See the clearance here:-
    DSC_0548.jpg

    I'm hoping something from the XL/XR 250 comes out wide enough, like these forged steel ones:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Hond...ICK-START-XL-25-XR-250-S-R-LEVER/232879027501
    It doesn't start as wide as the cb250rs does, but maybe it will clear it! (I'm not paying up for an OEM one until I know they fit).... They all basically share part numbers on the compatible XS/XL ones. Meanwhile XR500 looks like it won't clear.

    I'll let you know how it goes! (In case anyone actually looks back at this again).
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Nice Work Nice Work x 1
  17. Mike_T

    Mike_T Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Location:
    UK
    My Bike:
    CB250rsa
    So, answer is, a modern XL/XR250 kick does not fit a CB250rs.....

    DSC_0567.jpg
    Original is in the middle, the easily available XR/XL one is on the right. Obvious difference in shape (which I knew before I bought it but worth a try....).

    However,
    DSC_0553.jpg
    The curvy bit doesn't clear the foot peg. So, return to sender on that purchase.
    I could actually put it half on and kick start the bike, if I had no other option I'd keep it and carry it my bag as a starter - but not an ideal option!

    So, my conclusion is that I haven't found a cheap available aftermarket part to fit.
    However the spline size for the early (around 1980) XL/XR is right (see list from last post).
    Most XL/XR kick listings are also the same curvy shape. Honda did a different one for the CB250rs to clear the peg. However.... a few XR/XL listings look the right shape.

    I gave up and bought a kick that was listed as from an XL250R (far left in the first image), and it is exactly the same as the CB250rs off my bike. It was in bad shape (despite being overpriced at 50 scottish pounds), so I swapped over the joint etc from my old one which made it a lot tighter and nicer.

    So, if your searching for a CB250rs kick, search for old XR / XL ones too. But most you see will look curvy like the afermarket one I tried, don't buy them, but a few are the shape you need (I bought the only UK one, there are a few USA ones the right shape available). Maybe the original early years XR /XL ones were the same as the CB250rs - but part schematics don't say they should be. Maybe they are actually CB250rs ones that have been fitted to an XL/XR.

    Conclusion, if you need a CB250rs kick, widen your search to include XR/XL, but only if they look the right shape.

    Interestingly, the ATC250 kick start would fit (uses the same joint), but actually swivels the other way so won't work (joint is the same as CB, but lever is different to mount the other way round). I got tempted to try a XBR500 kick as some of the joint parts are the same.... It probably has a different spline, but I thought the actual level might fit onto the old joint. But I didn't try it in the end, so who knows. Interested if anyone tries it.

    Another version of the conclusion - these kicks are like gold dust. Unusual spline, and difficult clearance so needs to be the right shape. If anyone does find a more available option, it would be good to hear. I still feel there must be other options that fit from another bike, but I couldn't find what bike that might be....
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page