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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by GreyImport, Dec 6, 2017.
1-2% seems understated. You have a passenger moving around and it is quite noticeable. If you've ever ridden a bicycle no-handed you've also shown it can be more than 2%. I used to steer through corners and those narrow pass gate things that keep cars off the footpath. Geometry effects how successful bodysteer can be, too. I'm not saying that bar steering (counter-steering) isn't more important, just that 2% is understated.
Guess bodysteer comes down to the body vs the bike
Counter steering is how you start the turn, body positioning and technique determines your speed and lean angle.
A trick I was taught to lean out and try to kiss your mirror for every turn, no matter how silly it looks, just for practice.
Even body steering will in fact initiate a counter steer, even if you didn't know it.
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I thought I'd try it out on the way to work the other day. At 100km/h it did little, but under 60 you can move the bike more. So the gyroscopic effect is quite pronounced on a motorbike. Also, the vtr seems to correct itself quickly, rather than holding the corner. But it was only a brief test. 1-2% might be fair for a fast speed.
Watch this short video
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I was discussing contra-steering with a mate and we were trying to work out at what speed you change between normal and contra. Unfortunately my wife was listening and for about eighteen months after found it difficult to take a very slow corner as she would start thinking about the transition point. I heavily contra-steer as a result the wear pattern on my tyres seems to suggest that the front wheel leans a lot more that the rear.
counter steering doesnt work at very slow speeds ..... I take tight slow roundabouts by actually turning the bars slightly and a bit of body lean but at 'reasonable' speed on a curve out on the open road the slightest push on the 'opposite' bar tips the 250 into the corner in an instant
I'm not sure I follow you. Isn't what you described counter steering?
Counter steering is like this...
You are doing 100km/h and a long left sweeper is coming up. To turn left, you push the left handlebar away from you. This forces the front wheel to the right momentarily, but the bike leans over left. Physics takes over and the front wheel flops over to the left to follow the bike.
At slow speeds (<8km/h) you simply steer the front wheel in the required direction (think car steering wheel)
Don't over think it. You are probably counter steering without even knowing it when you ride.
going slow round the roundabout u veer right so u PULL the right hand bar towards you .... if u are going fast round a right hand bend you PUSH the right bar forward and away from you ... which is counter steering
You can definately notice body steering with a pillion on the back,
took a friend out for a ride yesterday and whenever she pushed on one peg more than the other to get comfortable i'd have to countersteer to correct it.
We all have been counter steering since we learned to ride a bicycle, but most of us didn't understand the physics going on behind the action of what we were doing, and so couldn't explain the process. With all the articles I've read, and videos watched, the one Linkin pointed out was the simplest explanation and easiest to visualize.
The video Greyimport showed us mentioned "muscle memory". This concept is seldom mentioned but in my estimation is all important. Each cycle we ride has different characteristics we need to take into consideration when riding. The more time you spend on the bike, practice, and (safely) challenge our skills the more we become one with it, and our reflexes respond quicker without the delay created by thinking about the actions about to take place. This allows us to focus what's down the road, and ask ourselves "What if? What if that dog, person, vehicle, pot hole, spacecraft, was to suddenly appear? We can take corrective measures immediately without having to think the process through because we are one (cautious confidence) with the bike and know the responses we can get out of it.
It was just the grey said countersteering didn't work at slow speeds, and then explain how he had use the bars in such cornering. You still have to counter steer to turn at slow speed, just you notice the pulling on the bar because there isn't opposition of the bike correcting itself. Unless you your weight is unstable and you're simply chasing that - like when you start from stationary and you were already leaning.
So much of this depends upon the sensitivity of the steering geometry and tire wear - there are bikes which need a shove to turn, some which need reverse pressure to stop from falling down into a corner and some which just need an involuntary thigh twitch from a testicle itch to initiate a turn.
Just look at the MotoGP victory laps - taking bends with both hands off of the bars punching the air using feet or butt cheeks to turn.
The entire phenomena of steering is a continuum between very stable to very unstable