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Discussion eThings - Mobility miracles or mobile death traps

Discussion in 'Licence - Rego - Insurance - Law - Rider Training' started by jmw76, Jan 8, 2023.

  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    On the fines levied against @Linkin I contend that the unregistered, uninsured and no tax paid on registrable vehicle, the most expensive ones are malicious and incorrectly levied against the user as opposed to the owner.
    NSW is dragging the chain on the issue.

    The open question is whether or not the vehicle is able to be registered.

    Plenty of coppers dish out fines without lawful cause knowing full well that the cost of Court challenge exceeds the cost of the fine and local Courts can be an absolute joke at times.

    I've challenged a fine for neg driving, the coppers lied both in sworn statement and on the stand, I lost BUT the prosecutors fury was clearly evident when he marched them out of the Court room - he was going to tear them to pieces, he was absolutely fuming!
    Coulda woulda shoulda had a solicitor for that one...
     
  2. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I wasnt going to chime in on this but.....
    Surely the best way to minimise the idiot factor is to severely limit the speed of e-scooters and e-bikes. Some of these things are faster than the little mopeds that you have to have a license to ride... There is the guy that was done in Brisbane for admitting on camera (Idiot) that he clocked something like 95kph on a bike and walking path before he came off and injured his back, or leg or something.
    He worked for an E-Scooter sales company... cost him his job as well as a big fine and loss of license... Qld law is that if it goes faster than a certain speed it becomes a normal traffic offense with all the fines etc etc.
    As far as the cops go... you hear all the time that Hwy Patrol are the worst etc but generally we only have contact with them when we have failed to observe the law... regardless if the law is right or not... they are doing what they are employed to do...
    A few weeks ago the day after that ambush on those Qld Cops I was filling up with fuel at Yass when a female Hyway Patrol cop turned up to fuel up... I actually asked her if I could have a quick chat to which she said sure... she seemed a little uneasy but she changed her tune completely when I thanked her for what she and other officers do on a daily basis... not quite the USA "thank you for your service" but close enough.
    She actually teared up a little and asked if she could give me a hug... we got same strange looks on the forecourt but I felt good that I had made a little difference in her day by appreciating that they are out there serving the community... good bad and indifferent..
    OK... mini rant over.. I will go back to contemplating my navel :)
     
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  3. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    escooter grave yard.

    [​IMG]

    bad business models/fashion trend gone wrong.
     
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  4. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    So how are they going to get rid of/recycle all the nasty bits in those?
     
  5. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Landfill.
     
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  7. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    It will stop all the asbestos from leaching up to the top
     
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  8. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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  9. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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  10. KiwiMat

    KiwiMat Well-Known Member

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    Great topic guys.

    I am a NSW Motorcycle instructor and was presenting the learners course 5 days a week.
    There is a lot of content in that course that could save the life of a scooter rider
     
  11. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Some basic education for scooter riders should help reduce the number of accidents and near misses.
    But who is going to pay for it?

    From all that I have read, even insurance cover for riders of hire escooters/ebikes is all a bit questionable.
    Generally e-scooters are not registered and the riders are unlicensed. Should accidents be covered under the general transport insurance provisions, such as TAC? Should motorists and motorcyclists have to pay for an unregulated and uncontrolled industry? Maybe a levy (additional tax) on the suppliers of e-scooters can be used to contribute to insurance and compliance?

    Some form of minimal standards and regulatory requirements are needed to control public safety, sale and general use.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in Victoria when the e-scooter trial ends on 31st March.
     
  12. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Here's the thing - there are no ADR's, no training and no licensing or registration requirements for anything that isn't a roadgoing registerable vehicle with a VIN etc. So how do you regulate them?

    In my opinion they all belong on footpaths and not the roads because it's inherently dangerous to use them on the roads, and their operators are usually not interested in continuing to live based on the crap they do while on the roads.

    In NSW, footpaths are a 'road related area' in legislation so they have a nice catch all to start 'disincentivising' (and generating revenue) the use of them at all.

    I'm off to court again next month to hopefully deal with my fines once and for all, but I still haven't received a brief of evidence yet... I am going to be pushing for them to prove that these e-scooters are a registerable vehicle since that is what their infringement notices claim.
     
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  13. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    But, but, we need to get Aus to net zero as quickly as possible to save the world and these are "e" scooters. Maybe you are all just racists and that's why you don't care about land rights for gay whales.
     
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  14. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Same as the 5-year shooting gallery trial in Richmond (Melbourne-centric Joke). It's funny that the Victorian Coroner is very happy about giving criminals a safe place to shoot up their special brand of poison, but I bet there is 'no comment' about saving the lives of idiots on e-scooters by banning the effing things!

    @maelstrom: There really are gay whales, so you better hope none of them are reading this forum.
     
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  15. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Why did I expect anything else.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/...join-controversial-trial-20230329-p5cwe6.html

    Victoria can not make up its mind on escooters, soooooo it extends it by another 6 months, opens the flood gates to personally owned scooters, reduces the age of riders to 16 (hello school kids) and allows them on roads up 60km/h limit (the actually scooters are restricted to no more than 20km/h).

    How are the cops going to effectively police all this? They are probably not going to.

    Surely, there should be some improved device regulations and standards put in place at the same time.

    it is also not clear from the press release whether or not the use of personal devices covers all of Victoria or just the trial locations. This is going to be impossible to control.

    I am not totally against these things, but there needs to be sensible controls on devices that are being sold and how they should be used. Allowing these low speed devices (speed restricted to 20km/h) to be used on main roads and not footpaths, doesn't seem to be the answer.

    Who is really going to enforce the speed limit? I would like to bet that the majority of privately owned escooters are capable of speeds well in excess of 20 km/h. Most do not have speedos, so how do you even know what speed you are doing.

    A bunch of school kids cruising along main roads and skylarking on the way to school does not seem like a good model to me (from a safety and traffic flow perspective).

    Oh well, time to go sit in my rocking chair and grumble about something else.

    Peter.
     
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  16. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    The cynic in me says, just in time for the expected surge in escooter use during the F1 GP in Melbourne.
     
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  17. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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  18. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Well, at least eScooter riders are included in the new Victorian 'distracted driver' laws (not that they will comply).

    https://tinyurl.com/2mrr2xv4
     
  19. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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  20. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Well, I guess in a democracy like that of the French, the people have a voice...wait...what am I talking about? This is the government who pushed through raising the pension age without parliamentary debate; I'm sure they won't give a flying f*ck about what the people want with regards to e-scooter hire.

    On a more cheery note, I can tell Peter isn't going to let this go so I wanted to share vision of what might possibly be a future Prime Minister of Australia riding his e-scooter over the Westgate Bridge (80kph posted limit) without a helmet and with his earpods in...truly stunning evidence that we're in a race to the bottom! I know that "one swallow does not a Summer make", but you have to admit some people are as useful as a wooden frying pan and this rider qualifies!

    https://tinyurl.com/3rm56rre
     
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