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Exhaust Gas Analyser

Discussion in 'Maintenance' started by Frankster, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    So, unless the engine is under load these things are useless? Is that the same for the NTK unit?
     
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Yes, that is the benefit of the NTK unit, you can actually tune under real world conditions. I would imagine that drag racing would be almost all wide open throttle and the most difficult thing would be staying at or above peak torque when you release the clutch. You need a skinny girl who weighs 40kg as the pilot :)
     
  3. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Agree about the skinny girl, but wife says NO.

    So, in the case of my bike I would need to have a sensor in each pipe and record air/fuel ratio during the run and then make changes accordingly...right? So should I be thinking about a data logger instead of the NTK unit? I'll read the NTK tuning manual and maybe contact a reseller to discuss best (and most affordable) options. I wonder what the guys who race in period 6 do with their bikes for tuning...I'm assuming Dyno runs and off to the track they go?
     
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  4. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Assuming the needle, emulsion tube and main jet are the only things that you would be messing with, it may be best to get one of those Keyster tuning kits that @kiffsta posted about recently and then play about. I think the on-board AFR monitor suits someone like me who will never see a dyno, because there are none, and has made so many changes to the bike that it is sure to run poorly. I will be able to just trundle along and take notice of where it is good and bad on the monitor, but if you only ride this bike at the drag strip then it sounds like an unnecessary expense.
     
  5. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Blair, I'm assuming that with the AFR monitor I would put a bung in each pipe and attach the sensor to one, go for a hard ride and record the reading. I'd then move the sensor to the next pipe and repeat the process for all 4 cylinders. I'm really not too good at tuning, so I'm just trying to get the basics right and then go from there. While this exercise is predominately for the drag bike, I do want to tune all my bikes properly, so it may be worth it. The only thing putting me off is the fact that I need to "damage" all the headers on every bike (weld bung in) in order to get the readings. I believe when they're using a dyno they put a sniffer up and that takes each AF reading? Thanks for being patient with me. I need to understand the process and get this right in my head before spending some cash.
     
  6. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    • With a dyno you are just getting one reading for all four cylinders.
    • Dyno costs are just going to accumulate while you change jets and return to try again.
    • A GoPro would be the thing so you can just check your tacho vs AFR.
    • The AFR is going to be a useful piece of kit if you are a bike nut who likes to tinker.
    • The headers can be restored to whatever condition you want
    • If you wait 399 years I will have my Yamaha together and I can let you know how it works out.


     
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  7. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Yep, I'm almost convinced the AFR monitor is a must have. I have a GoPro and was thinking to do what you suggested as I don't want to keep looking down at the Tacho and other monitors all the time. I'm sure a Dyno is probably the best solution, but it's just too much for me dollar wise. I rang a couple of places here in Melbourne and wasn't too excited about their "rough" quotes. Plus, I have to tinker if I want to go faster, so it's always going to be an issue. Eventually I'd like to run the bike on methanol, so I have a lot to learn before that.
     
  8. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Methanol will not achieve much unless you are running a gazillion to 1 compression ratio and you need it to stop detonation. "Ooops I forgot to fit needles and seats that can flow 200% more" Boom! There goes 4 pistons.

    From the videos I have seen of small bikes at the drag strip, like the 250, they just bog down off the line. I would think that the rpm should never drop below 11000. I would use small tyres, light rider, low gearing and a clutch that can take a ton of abuse.
     
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  9. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    And maybe add some weight to the flywheel to get moving off the line better.
     
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  10. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I don't understand what that means, but where would I add the weight on the flywheel? Or should I get a heavier flywheel?
     
  11. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    A heavier flywheel will give more inertia off the line and stop the revs from dropping too much.
     
  12. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Does that then have the opposite effect on engine braking? I assume the extra weight goes on the perimeter of the flywheel? How much weight are we talking about?
     
  13. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    The only one I've ever done was on a Honda Elsinor. We machined a piece of thick walled steel pipe to make a shrink fit over the outside of the magneto flywheel, heated and fitted, then machined the outside smooth/round. It slowed the engine from 'jumping' onto the pipe too quickly and made it more rideable. I didn't notice any difference with engine braking/slowing down. I cannot remember what the finished weight difference was (in was in 1977) but I think it would have been about 10mm thick, and about 40mm wide.
     
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  14. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Thanks Murdo. I had an MT125 on the farm.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Pure genius :):):) Did something similar on a suzuki savage 650 single to smooth out the power delivery after it was bored and stroked to just under 740cc..needs must it snapped numerous belts along the way..but went no faster :(..torque on the other hand meant that it would pull top gear from 22-25 in top two up!!!! Not sure if that helps in a full bore straight line race but it never dropped off its torque/power curve, slightly slower to rev but it didn't do much of that anyway..AF ratio underload as its used is 100pc more important than any other method of tuning..those headers are the only way to do it properly..other than a dyno..bad news and lots of butchering I know..but it will work..correctly..out of the box. Keep the updates coming buddy, and good luck, si
     
  16. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    This was on a silver tanked 250. It also had forward mounted shocks and longer damper rods in the forks to give more suspension travel. Hmm, the stuff I used to do. Pity we didn't have any good cameras then. :idk:
     
  17. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I couldn't agree more.
     

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