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Project GFS250P Slingshot rework...

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Bab, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    It was suggested awhile ago (Joker) that I should start a thread to describe some of the work, and procedures I will undertake while attempting to bring this bike back to a running condition. The bike was found abandoned, and apparently not been run for approximately 2 years. My first walk around it showed me it had been down based on the ends of the clutch lever. Apparently no major damage. There was repairs to the aluminum bracket supporting the right side passenger peg, suggesting it might have been dropped on that side as well. Overall the bike looked to be complete with the exception of the plate that covers the battery well, and supports the tank and seat latch. As well there were a few vibro isolation grommets and some fasteners associated with the above plate that had gone astray. It was obvious the battery had been deceased for some time and should of been laid to rest, but fortunately it was suitable to take some measurements off so I could fabricate the missing plate.
    After skulking around the forum, I have arrived at the conclusion we all speak the "Queen's own English" even if it is our interpretation of it. That being said, if I use terms, or slang that needs clarification, I'm not that old and miserable that I can't be approached with questions. We are after all cousins of one kind (2-wheeled) or another, and anything done to make each other's life easier, will be rewarded in some manner or another. I ramble..
    The first thing to do to the "Slingshot / Bandit other than dig around for some history, and facts is to get it off the floor so I can move it around my shop and get it raised where these arthritic bones can work on it comfortably. I had an inexpensive lift

    IMG_20171006_103524.jpg

    I used for a HD Ultraglide, but to incorporate into the use of the Suzuki I needed a cradle built to suspend it firmly on the platform of the lift.
    The cradle was fashioned out of some angle iron salvage from a cast off bed frame (aren't yard sales great?).

    IMG_20171006_103057.jpg

    The cradle was fashioned so that it picked the bike up by supporting it under the frame, and the cross member of the centre stand.

    IMG_20171006_111957.jpg

    (I haven't been able to orient the photos to a working position.) The details of the cradle maybe a topic of its own. Let me know If there is any interest. This brings a question to mind. Is the '93 250 frame equivalent to the '93 400 frame?
    My next effort will be the manufacture of the battery / seat plate.

    Regards...
     
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  2. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    Hey Bab, we (Aus and Canada) speak English, it's the Americans who cannot spell. :lolsign:
    The cradle idea is great, better than some that rely on the bike balancing on the trolley.
    Keep up the good work.
     
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  3. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I'm quite excited to find you speak fluent GSF, version #250!!
     
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  4. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
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    Since we agree that we speak in tongues recognizable to each other, I'll continue with the manufacture of the "battery plate" that was missing on the Slingshot.
    I began by sketching what I thought I needed and extrapolated dimensions, and approximate locations of the fasteners, tank mounts, and seat latch. The next step was to cut the side out of a cardboard beer case and make a mock up of the plate, and trial fit to check the locations of the hardware. I then found a small piece of 16 gauge steel and began in earnest. I blued the surface with Dykem lay out die (You could use soot from a lamp, or torches by burning rich) so I could transfer the location, and dimensions needed.
    I used my angle grinder, hacksaw, and files to cut the required profile, or blank out of the sheet steel. To form the piece I clamped it in my vice and beat on it with a ball pein hammer. Where the fold would not fit the jaws of the vice properly, a piece of angle iron held in the vice, with the plate clamped to it sufficed. Once the edges were folded down on the ends for the mounting holes, the long dimension was folded to add some strength.
    A trial fit indicated the plate or bracket was too long and would be a major struggle to fit. To correct this I took my plumbing torch and with the bracket in the vice I heated the one end fold and with more noise with the hammer formed the fold a little tighter resulting in shortening the overall length. Now it fits.
    The holes for the hardware was located, drilled, and M6 nuts were tack welded on the underside to accommodate the fasteners. One hole for the seat latch was out of position, so I ground the nut off the back, gob & blobbed welded the hole closed. It then w as cleaned up with the grinder and relocated. Once it was determined everything fit where it should, a coat of paint, and a strip of self adhesive neophrene was installed to help protect the wiring loom which runs underneath. Done!
    The next aspect of the repairs will be the r&r of leaking fork seals.


    IMG_20171013_112959.jpg IMG_20171013_113047.jpg IMG_20171013_113104.jpg IMG_20171014_094940_hdr.jpg IMG_20171014_095042.jpg IMG_20171014_100106.jpg
     
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  5. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    The fork seals were leaking profusely when we got the Slingshot. They had been for some time, evident in the stains on the lower fork, and the drips pooling on the floor under the caliper. I cleaned the calliper up to make sure it was not leaking, and the only problem there was the one small rubber boot that protects the one pin had turned to mush. I suspect the continuous oil bath it was getting was the reason.
    The forks were not difficult to remove from the bike. This topic has been beat to death on U-tube, and I won't rehash too much of the process. First of all I disconnected the speedo cable from the back of the speedometer, and snaked it out of the triple clamps and the fender loop. It was wiped down and hung up for storage. Next was the front fender, or mud guard, and it's bracket. The fasteners were put in their respective holes finger tight so they don't go missing. This will make it some what easier to reassemble later (I hope). The front calliper is removed and using a piece of wire I hung it from the frame so that I don't stress the hose and banjo connection. Again all the fasteners where put in their place. I then loosened all the axel clamp bolts, axel and the fork clamps.
    This is where the cradle I built to suspend the bike on my lift begins to shine. I lowered the bike to the lowest position, and for added safety I put a block under the rear tire (tyre) incase the weight reduction on the front would upset the balance of the bike. I removed the axel and front wheel (no surprises) and secured the axel in a bucket for storage. The caps on the top of the forks were loosened but left with lots of thread to ensure the stored energy in the spring and it's hazard is still secured. I tried to loosen the cap screw located at the extreme bottom of the lower fork. It screws into the bottom of the piston, and succeeded with one. It is suggested an impact gun is used to shock the screw against it's "stiction" that is present against the inside of the tube wall in all most of the videos, but I don't have one. Instead I used my 8mm allen wrench with a small cheater on the short end. I gave it a sharp crack with a hammer and then could loosen the screw.
    At his point I loosened the triple clamps and twisted the forks out one at a time. I stood the forks on a rag on the shop floor, put my ratcheting wrench on the cap, put a glove on to capture the cap when the spring ejected it, and removed the cap. The oil gets dumped, and as the components slide out of the tube I placed them on a piece of cardboard to catch and soak the oil up. This keeps it off the concrete, and saves the hassle of cleaning that mess up. At the bench I removed the dust cap, an then the circlip with a small screw driver. Don't scratch the tube!! Now with some care I used the inner fork tube as a slide hammer and with repeated impact bumped out the seal. The balance of the innards were spilled out for inspection and cleaning.
    The one fork gave me an issue with the piston bolt not letting go. It went to the vice. Now I have to deal with the making of the special tool that they talk about in the U-tube vids. looking down from the top of the piston, you see a convoluted pattern in the inside. In my case a 1 inch nut fits nicely inside. It gets welded to the end of a piece of bird feeder stand (never throw anything out!). It gets a quick coat of paint to distinguish between the junk, and the tools. Improvise as you wish.

    IMG_20171018_165809.jpg IMG_20171018_170155.jpg IMG_20171018_170229.jpg IMG_20171018_170240.jpg IMG_20171018_170530.jpg IMG_20171018_170548.jpg IMG_20171018_165748.jpg

    Now with the stubborn fork leg held in the bench vice, using appropriate padding and gentle pressure, I could hold the end of the tool, and work the screw at the other end with the allen wrench. Still lots of oil, so have lots of rags available. While the fork was still captured, the dust cap and clip was removed and the pulling of the seal proceeds. More oil...
    I cleaned up the seals, and based on numbers I found on them (seals K&S 161037 TC4 41 53 8.2, caps NOK BR4935E 20). I have seals ordered.
    The bike is sitting firmly in place in the highest position of my lift with no indication that it wants to go anywhere other than where I intend it to.
    When you look at the bushings for wear, you are looking for a grey coloured (spelling) coating of Teflon. It needs to be uniform all the way around the surface of the piece.
    Now I wait...
     
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  6. Joker

    Joker CLUB250 Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    I think you're doing some great work mate, but have you done any engine work yet? I would be starting there on a bike like this, considering parts and instructions are so hard to find... not trying to be negative but I know first hand you could go to all this effort and end up with a good looking paperweight...
     
  7. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    Nice work Babs, had to make a few of those tools myself.
    Good to see your spelling coming along. :lolsign:
     
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  8. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Thanks for your alert towards the engine, Joker. I've read your previous comments here and in other posts regarding the parts scarcity. I have taken your word to heart, and I must admit I'm scared green to drop a battery in it and crank it over to see what transpires. The seals for the forks were a necessity, and was a reasonably inexpensive introduction to the sourcing of parts. I've dwelled on this issue of parts and the impact it could have pertaining the motor, and have decided to pull the battery out of my NT and try it in the Slingshot. This should give me an indication as to the condition of the power plant without the expense of a new battery.
    On the topic of parts, your lead to your Russian friends was a great find. The drawings, and parts list is the best and most accurate I've found. I'm hoping I don't need to go to Russia for parts, because as you've said before the cost will be a major factor in how far we can go with this bike.
    Again I thank you for looking over my shoulder as I stumble around this bike, and I do appreciate the time and effort it takes on your end to post your thoughts. With kind regards...Bab
     
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  9. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I don't need spell check, I've got Murdo!!
     
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  10. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    Just trying to help you with your 'English' (not Aussie speak). :lolsign:
    Don't worry, I get it wrong sometimes too.
     
  11. beano

    beano Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    +1 on this, check the compression and get her running before spending any more time or money, we've all been led astray by our enthusiasm at some stage and its easy to be blinded by a new project.
     
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  12. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    I have 3 bandits in parts , but I am in Brisbane
     
  13. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I've been trying to keep my enthusiasm in check until I can mooch my neighbour's compression gauge. In the meantime I've been reading everything you guys have written on these bikes. I'm surprised you don't have carpal tunnel from all the typing (and spell checking). However, I'm still wound up over this bike, and can't leave it alone. When we bought it, a set of pads for the rear brake were included, so I cleaned up the calliper, and installed the pads. Decided the pipes needed cleaning, and the wheels should have a shine as well. The deeper I get into this machine the more signs I see that some maintenance has ben done on it. The engine oil is not black but clean, and no odour of it being scorched. The brake fluid is up and clean. Caliper pistons all clean and functioning, and the fork oil wasn't the dark grey / black as might have been expected. I hope all this is a good sign, of course I had to say it, and now Murphy's Law will be invoked. Damn!.
    So I put it off long enough and installed the battery out of my Honda, just to see what happens.
    I pulled the air box off and had a peek down the carbs. The slides were stuck, so I gave them a shot of carb cleaner and now they are loose and smooth. All looks clean below, but I decided to put some Seafoam through the fuel line to soften, and dissolve any gum present.
    The plug were pulled, and looked like the bike was running rich. I've cleaned them, checked the gap and reinstalled them. I did notice the plugs are NGK CR7E, instead of the CR8E specified in the specs that I've found. Does any one know the consequences of these plugs being run instead of the proper ones? The plugs looked clean and in good shape, the leads are clean, and in the proper orientation.
    I made sure the transmission was in neutral, jury-rigged a fuel source instead of tank on, tank off, and tried the ignition. I choked it and coaxed it but to no avail. The starter motor responded immediately with what I considered a fast rate. I pulled the plugs and found evidence of fuel in the cylinders but not flooded. By grounding the plug on the casing and turning the engine over can find no spark. Now I'll start tracing wiring, switches etc.
    Again, any comments on the plug designations? With thanks...
     
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  14. sharky

    sharky Active Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    The lower the number on NGK plugs the hotter they run, if your bikes standard plug calls for a Cr8E a Cr7E (one hotter)should be fine, but I think you should never run a colder plug than recommended because of carbon buildup, or thats what ive heard.
     
  15. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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  16. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Sharky's explanation of the plug designation would make sense out of my suspicion that a previous owner was somewhat diligent in their observations of how the bike ran, and their approach to maintenance. My first impression of the plugs indicated carbon building up, and perhaps the hotter plug was a result of their findings as well. I could also be dreaming. I had forgotten the plug number designation regarding the "heat" and was confused with the length and need to thank Sharky for clearing that up for me.
    A thanks go out to Greyimport for pointing out the item regarding the trimming of the leads (previously enjoyed). As a kid I remember watching my father attack the lawnmower with his side cutters to clean the end of the plug wire to improve the spark. At this time I have no indication of even a weak spark, so for now I'll leave the snips in the tool box.
    I don't know forum protocol, or how all the gizmos work, but I do appreciate, and thank the members, for the interest and help you have shown me as well as sharing so many informative items the likes of me can learn from. Regards...
     
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  17. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    It's been awhile since I posted anything on my efforts. My neighbour came through with the loan of his compression gauge, but I had to order an adapter to match the plug threads, so we wait...some more. While we wait, I cleaned up the pipes

    IMG_20171017_104215.jpg IMG_20171017_104242.jpg IMG_20171018_165206.jpg

    and cleaned up some surface rust on the underside of the fuel tank. This received a coat of paint. While I had the tank on the bench I had a look inside for rust and drained some old fuel from it and looked for evidence of rust, but found none. I removed the petcock and looked the strainer over closely and believe it to be clean and undamaged.
    The wheels got a cleaning, and polish, and I paid a little more attention to the tires (tyres) and have determined they are virtually new. I should check the production codes and see when they were made.
    I'm finding small details that I find solutions to that aren't too taxing. Stripped JIC fastener heads, push fasteners needing glued inside the Tupperware shrouding the seat and the like.
    I have also been reading, and rereading the multitude of posts surrounding the issues of electrical. When I can get my head together, I mean my findings, in a logical fashion I'll post them and perhaps have experience, and sources to share.
    While writing this I was informed my gauge adapter has arrived, and so the shed calls...
     
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  18. Bab

    Bab Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Compression...
    The results of the compression tests were compiled with a cold engine due to the fact I have no spark / ignition. My findings are as follows:
    Cylinder #1 (dry) 9.5 KG/cm2. (wet) 12 KG/cm2
    Cylinder #2 (dry) 9.5 KG/cm2. (wet) 12 KG/cm2
    Cylinder #3 (dry) 10 KG/cm2. (wet) 12.25 KG/cm2
    Cylinder #4 (dry) 9.0 KG/cm2. (wet) 12.5 KG/cm2
    I attempted to inflate the gauge with approximately 6 revolutions of the motor, but they do wind fast. I left the pressure standing for a minimum of 5 minutes, and all the cylinders held that long. #4 was left over night just for sh!ts and giggles, and was still inflated in the morning. The "wet" readings were done with a few drops of oil. I did not want to introduce an overabundance of oil to the cylinders and compound the problem of ignition with fouled plugs.
    My interpretation of these readings indicate the compression is on the lower end of the standards, but still serviceable when you look at the dry readings. Looking at the wet readings, would that be an indication that the rings are not loose and sealing when they were dry? What consequences of doing the tests on a cold engine have on my findings? Not being a mechanic, I would beg comments, observations, and suggestions from you who have broke this trail before me.

    Electrical...
    I wonder how far I should go with this? As I began investigating the electrical, I read posts here, and my approach paralleled other's, however my skill sets limit me somewhat. I can remember a time when I would be in the vicinity of electricity, and bright blue sparks and the odour of ozone was often present. This doesn't happen as often these days, but I am looking for the bright blue spark.
    While waiting for the compression gauge to appear, I began doing a survey of the electrical on the bike...
    Battery: 4 months old, from my Honda NT, charged and holding at 12.8V.
    Fuses: 25A fuse blown, replaced with 20A until I can get a 25A. No indication as to why it was blown, 20A holding.
    Connections: Checked and cleaned all connections at the battery, solenoid, fuses, and all connections as following test were done.
    Plugs: First look to me indicated the bike may have been running rich. Cleaned them, checked the gap, and looked for excessive resistance in them.
    Wires: Checked the condition of wiring of the circuits visually, and did voltage, and continuity tests but found nothing I believe detrimental.
    Kill switch: Works as expected.
    Side Stand switch: This had me going for a while. I tried simple continuity test for open / closed and got nothing. I had no wiring diagrams at this stage, but I used a test light and determined it worked. (Maybe some one could teach me and others the proper way to prove the integrity of it.)
    Neutral Switch: This followed in line with the side stand and determined it was functioning.
    Relay for above: By introducing power to it I concluded it is in working order.
    Coils: #1&2 primary 5.8 Ohms, secondary 13.07 Ohms. #3&4 primary 5.8 Ohms, secondary 13.24 Ohms. Voltage at primary 12V, correct polarity, ground (earth) good, no resistance, connections between coils and CDI plug good.
    Regulator / rectifier: I began by checking the connections for corrosion / heat and found one connection was discoloured, but cleaned up ok. No evidence of heat built up because of any resistance due to dirt or loose connections.
    Signal generator: Resistance 329Ohms.
    CDI wiring: I checked all the connections in the harness between the CDI connector nd the individual components looking for poor connections, dirt / corrosion, voltage, and voltage drops when the engine was cranking and found nothing alarming. Unit itself looked clean and dry, with no evidence of physical damage or excessive heat.

    IMG_20171024_155047.jpg

    Now for the real fun of it we get to the readings published in the charts found in the specs.
    Regulator rectifier: I'm getting resistance where there shouldn't be. An example, Black probe (B/R) x Red probe (B/W) should read infinite, but my results are 3.05.
    CDI: The same results as above, where I match some of the Infinite readings, but nothing else matches up.

    In reading some of the material posted here I recall someone making the statement "check the tach wire". I found the wire B/Y between the coil #3&4 and the tach and found nothing indicating there is a problem with the connections, and checked from there to the CDI connector and found no resistance, telling me the connections and wiring is good.
    All the above efforts were done with a new battery in my multimeter, and I have concluded the CDI needs replaced before I can proceed, or I need to learn how to read the meter.
    I have poked around to source a CDI, but many of the sources will not ship to Canada (what did we do?) and would appreciate any input members might have as to a reliable source.
    Another point regarding sources, I discovered a website that appears to have scads of wiring diagrams and manuals for a large assortment of bikes that may be of help to some. Scout out www.Classiccycles.org

    Thanks to all
     
  19. Wozza

    Wozza Active Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Those compression figures will come up a bit when done on a warm/hot engine...the main thing is they are pretty even between cylinders....
     
  20. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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