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Project New acquisition - Honda Spada

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by jmw76, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I have some bearing shells (somewhere) on the way for my VT250F2. If they are incorrect I would be happy to swap/buy those off you.
     
  2. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good. I guess I have some VT250F head gaskets also.
     
  3. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. So its time for an update on my Spada project.
    Firstly, to restate the initial objective, being to purchase a cheap little runabout in need of some TLC and see how cost effectively I can rebuild it.

    I was looking for a Spada or VTR250 as they look good when spruced up and were fairly long running in production so I thought parts would be easy to find. I also wanted something that I could run on club plates (>25 years old).

    The original bike I purchased for a few hundred dollars as a crash damaged but running bike with a few spares thrown in.
    The engine was a little noisy, so I new that it would need some attention, but I managed to ride the bike around the block within 15mins of getting it home. So I figured it was at least a reasonably starting point.

    So the task was to strip the bike completely and give it a bit of love, trying to get it back to as close to original condition as possible (on the cheap). The frame and general running gear came up pretty well with a bit of effort and some fresh paint here and there.

    Stripping the engine revealed a big end bearing that had seen better days. Most likely starved of oil at some point.

    The VT/VTR250 range of bikes was first produced in 1982 and ran through to 2018 in various model variations. That is a pretty impressive production life. One would expect with such a long production run that parts availability would be reasonably plentiful with lots of knockoff aftermarket bits available. Good in theory.

    I used the likes of ebay and AliExpress as my "go to" locations for sourcing the bits that I needed.

    The Spada has a few unique bits (such as the frame) as a result of its single year production run, but I had guessed that most of the main mechanical bits would be common to the other bikes in the series. Essentially the Spada engine is just a six speed variation of the VTR (which only has 5 speeds).

    To my surprise, it appears that many of the Chinese suppliers are not that knowledgeable of the subtle differences between the models. I would specifically search for item listings that had Spada, MC20 or VTR250 in the description.

    I learnt quickly that to actually get parts that had any chance of fitting my Spada I needed to ask a few additional questions.
    Unfortunately COVID just made the whole process that much harder. I am still waiting on head gaskets to arrive as of today.

    Yes, I could have attempted to source OEM parts but that sort of spoils the whole point of attempting to rebuild a mass produced vehicle as a cheap weekend runabout.

    Here is a list of some of "cheap parts" that I have purchased and the issues encountered (a bit of a heads up for other DIY enthusiasts):
    1) Engine gasket set. Purchased as compatible for Spada/MC20. What was delivered was a gasket set for the earlier VT250F. The 250F has some little variations that result in slight dimension variations in most of the gaskets. The biggest being different head gaskets. I was able to make use of all except the head gaskets with a bit of tweaking.
    2) Main and big end bearings. I purchase a set of standard AHL bearings. These were listed as fitting the Spada and VTR motors. Unfortunately the mains were ok, but the big ends were 1mm under-size. Apparently the VT250F ran 32mm big ends where as the later motors run 33mm. These bearings were marked KE8 and I believe are for the VT250F. Back to the internet to try and find a source for the more plentiful VTR parts. Not so simple. I finally manged to find what appeared to be a correct set (months later).
    3) Piston rings. I purchased a set of AHL rings. Again these were for the 250F which has a slightly wider oil control ring. I used the 1st & 2nd rings but elected to put back my old oil control rings which still appeared to be in reasonable shape. I just didn't want the hassle of looking for yet more parts.
    4) Big end bearings (second set). I thought these would be ok. They were advertised as being suitable. I even had the supplier measure them before sending. Unfortunately I discovered that the size of the locating tab on the bearings I received was a bit bigger than my old bearings. I had to hand file the tab so that it would fit snugly into my connecting rods. These new bearings were marked KM3.

    The lesson here is, if you want to have as few problems as possible and need to save time, go for OEM parts if you can. If you are wanting to save some cash (Chinese parts can be 1/4 the price of OEM) then be prepared to put in a LOT more research and double check everything before purchasing. Engine parts are not a universal fit for all VT/VTR250 models (even though the supplier may try to tell you so).

    You will also find that the Chinese knock off bearings are not available in the incremental/colour size variations like the OEM ones.

    I am still waiting on some VTR head gaskets to arrive (Actually purchased an upper engine gasket kit out of the USA. Freight was a killer on this one, but I could not find the correct parts out of China or locally).

    Anyway, the bottom end of the motor is back together and looks OK at this point. Only time will tell.

    I am expecting the head gaskets within days. I can then finish the engine assembly, treat it to a fresh paint job and stick it back in the bike.

    With any luck, the bike will be all back together and running by the end of June.


    Peter.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  4. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    How did you go with your cheap aftermarket Cam chains??
     
  5. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Well thanks for taking the time to document that for everyone.
     
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  6. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    @Andych I have not been able to put the heads on yet, so a bit premature to speak of how the chains went. But they are in place and ready. They look ok, but really only time will tell.
     
  7. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK, I guess they will be better than the cheap one I got for the SRX, it was considerably lighter in construction than the original and I binned it straight away.
     
  8. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    The cheap cam chains I purchased look quite good. Material wise, they look much the same as the original ones. They are silent link style for the later engines, not link and roller like the earlier engines.
     
  9. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Finally received my head gaskets. 40 days in transit from the US. About 20 of those taking a scenic trip around Australia. Landing in Sydney, onto Perth then Adelaide and finally on to Melbourne?????? Got to question the logic of freight companies sometime.
    Anyway, they look correct. Will try to fit on the weekend.
     
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  10. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    I once purchased a tyre from silverdale on the outskirts of Sydney.. when it hadn’t arrived 2 weeks later turned out it had done the 50 km trip to me via Adelaide and Melbourne. Great you can finally get your Spada running. Beware of the factory manual cam timing instructions.
     
  11. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I have noticed there are variations in cam timing instructions between TV250F, Spada and VTR manuals.
    I figure the VTR is probably correct. The Spada manual looks like an interim draft to me.
    Should I just use the VTR instructions?
     
  12. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Not sure about vtr instructions. Set both cams with the rear cylinder at tdc with the flywheel position set in the prescribed position for adjusting the rear cylinder valves. Make sure the alignment marks for both front and and rear cylinder Cams are parallel with the top of both cylinders.... (Set both cam shafts from the Same rear flywheel tdc mark).... turn the motor over gently by hand to check no cam vs piston disasters. Sorry, if this makes no sense I’ll try again in the morning before the yard arm hits beer oclock :)
     
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  13. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Gizzi, makes sense to me thanks.
    Peter.
     
  14. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    I found this little section in the VTR250 manual useful for setting the cam timing on the Spada.

    cam-timing.png
     
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  15. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Couldn't have drawn it more simply myself. I'd go so far as to suggest that the valve timing instructions in the Official Spada workshop manual are so badly written they are incorrect if one follows them to the letter. Hard to imagine such a sophisticated company as honda doing such a poor job. Wonder how many hours have been lost world wide trying to figure out how to do this job correctly.
     
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  16. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    The only Spada manual that I have is a hand marked up draft. Did they ever release a full version? Certainly the wording in the marked up copy appears to be wrong. I expect it is wording carried over from another manual and never actually update correctly to reflect reality.

    Anyway, I am now just waiting for paint to dry.
     
  17. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    The "marked" manual is the only one I have ever seen, I just purchased the one Caringbah motorcycles used to distribute with the Grey Import Spada's they used to sell. Its now in the hands of Australia post so should be seeing it sometime between tomorrow and Christmas:) It will be interesting to see whats in that.
     
  18. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone got any idea what is the correct arrangement for the intake trumpets on the carbs? There is a long one and a short one.
    I think the long one goes to the rear cylinder. Can someone confirm.
     
  19. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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  20. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Yep found that. So which one is the long one? I will look tomorrow to see if the part numbers are molded into the parts.
     

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