@mboddy I get the fascination with 2 strokes, my first was a TS185 that was a fun bike but that powerband made it extremely difficult to ride. Currently I still have a DS80 I'm thinking I may restore just for fun. It's a good little machine, too small for me but I can still thrash it around the backyard with the kids. Sorry to use this as an example, but I really wouldn't think it was the bike that was the issue here. I love big bikes but you have to be disciplined when you ride them. A different skill to what is required on a 250cc none the less but a necessary one. People can ride machines to their limits but the luxury of a big bike is that you simply don't have to. Something like a fireblade will leave a 250cc (or pretty much anything else) for dead with very little effort, and it will leave you for dead if you don't reign yourself in.
Great debate this one. I look at it like this. Its great going fast in a straightish line...but over the years 150 mph on a big bike becomes slow if you get me. where as being on a small bike and attacking corners flat out is just addictive to me. Bit like eating jelly as a 4year old. I've just thought of when me and my mates were all 17 racing point to point around country lanes on our small cc bikes, I had a Kwack AR80 bored and tuned with an RS 125 pipe that did 90mph and throwing that round some tight corners was fun. There not many places that you can be on the edge with a bigger heavier bike other than the track. Just my 2c worth. Brizfoz.
There's 2 angles to my liking for smaller bikes. The first is they're cheap. The engine blew in my MC22 and I picked another one up a month later for $400. I know some guys get a whole MC22 for that much but the prices for parts is so low it's a perfect bike to start working on. Parts availability is also extremely high. Plus, my MC22 with the Tyga kit turns more heads than my friends R6/R1/Z1/Younameit. Even the Honda dealer guys are intrigued by it. Another thing is, for me personally, it's boring on a big bike (if you're on public roads) because the bike is so overpowered for the streets. A track bike is different but I believe you don't need to go fast to have fun or have good skills. At Lakeside there was a CBR250RR and CBR400RR pretty much matching lap times with 600s and bigger bikes. So I don't think a bike ever holds back a rider unless it's a real dog. I mean, sure, some tracks like QR it would be boring because you'd top out on the straights (and take a while to get to the corners) but in general the bike is plenty capable. They're the main things, but you also have the fact small displacement bikes are somewhat sought after in places like the USA. So you get a bit of satisfaction in riding bikes many people wish they could. Sure, MC22s are dime a dozen in Australia, but elsewhere it's not the case. A good comparison is motocross. A 450 is the standard fastest "big bike" but most people agree the smallest bike, a 125cc 2 stroke is often deemed the most fun. The bike can usually clear most jumps and obstacles but you really have to be a good rider to get the most out of it. You also have to ride precisely and rev the crap out of it to go fast which makes it fun. Also, they're cheap too! It's each to their own though. If you enjoy going fast, get a fast bike. If you like cruising, get a comfy one. If you want a cheap bike, get a 250. For the record though, I only ride my MC22 when I go back to QLD. But I did ride it for 4 years, well past my LAMS requirement. My bike had character, my 600RR doesn't. My NSR has the rarity, being odd, uncommon and having a racing pedigree. I've had plenty of "oh ****" moments on my Cibby too. Just ride them with old tyres that have low grip in the twisties. How I never lowsided that thing I'll never know.
No I dont think so. My dads best mate has one of these. And it was the first of the Superbikes. That thing is weapon. It would give even the "Superbikes" of today a scare. Ive heard many a tale from him about that bike giving him an oh **** moment. And he has been riding bikes for 30 years prior to owning it. He even went to the trouble of turning down the carbys to 50% to make it more manageable. And it STILL hammers. The FZR 1K is an absolute weapon. As for the rest of the debate. 18,000 RPM. End of discussion. Close thread.
For me I think the principle goes both directions. If you have a bike your riding capability can't handle - find one that does! It's not the bike's fault, they're all different, respond different, tuned different. It's the rider that needs to find something that fits within their skill level, riding ability and comfort! I personally have had more oh **** moments (seeing as we're speaking of them) on a 250cc than any other bike I've ridden. Why? - Less mid range/top end power to get me out of trouble on freeways and at speed - On a 250 I'm often visibly smaller therefore harder to see for other road users - Increased kickout/slide on smaller tyres under slippery/wet conditions - Tiny little pistons in these tiny master cylinders... less braking power to stop me in time But that's just me. If you want to thrash a tiny little engine to 18000 rpm to keep up with the big bikes then good luck to you. I've got nothing against it, I do it now too. Just don't try to sell it as though you do it because you've somehow got superior skills or you don't want to be a "sheep" on a big bike. Most of that is just a load of hot air.
wats with this fixation for 'fast' and 'big bikes' ? I don't give a toss if someone has a faster or slower bike than me ..... I don't give a rats arse about how big or small their bike is If you want to thrash a tiny little engine to 18000 rpm to keep up with the big bikes then good luck to you I thrash a tiny little engine to 18000 rpm because its good fun .... I don't need to keep up with anyone I ride to enjoy myself on a bike that's enjoyable to ride .... wateva that may be
Don't know what you mean, grey. I'm asking people to explain the fixation with 250's? I don't think we're saying anything significantly different mate - you ride what you like to ride etc.
With the my 250 can beat your big bike thing... Well its the same as the hyundai excel with a bodykit and flies around thinking it's a v8 supercar. When I managed a dominos I had a delivery driver once that honestly in his own mind thought his excel could beat my old vx ss. It took an actual race where I gave him a 4 second headstart and chirped 3rd next to his drivers window as i sailed past for him to finally shut up lol. 250s are nimble, easy to ride, fast in corners and do take a skill to keep up with the bigger boys. Another positive is they are economical and you can give it everything and still be under speed limits so are a slightly better chance of keeping your licence.
How does your ZX7R go on fuel compared to your ZXR? Yeh I'm not trying to be a tool I get some of the advantages of a 250. But if you have trouble keeping your licence I'd argue you need better self control, not a smaller bike! For me, I'll be upgrading as soon as I can. I feel a bit like a V8 driver stuck in a getz. I can make it go well enough, but it feels like I have to go to the effort to get anything out of it all of the time... so for me it gets a bit old. Nothing against those who choose 250 though, always remember - I have one too (For now at least!)
Because the zx7 is in good tune it does less then 6L/100km. The best of the zxr250 was 5.2/100 (running like dogs balls) should do 4.3ΔΉ/100. I am definitely not complaining about the economy of the 7r. But some 250 ninjas do 3L/100km but they also sound like arse and are slow as hell. Personal preferences. Dude If upgrading is what you want do so. ps I love my 7r
After replacing the needles and emulsion tubes on FZR carbs I got 4L/100KM, but lately it has increased to 5L/100KM with commuting
I can make it go well enough, but it feels like I have to go to the effort to get anything out of it all of the time... so for me it gets a bit old. Stu .... have u taken up smoking crack or something? Im presuming your talking about your FZR here .... you've owned it for like 2 months? You cannot compare one of these that hasn't had the the carbys rebuilt CORRECTLY and tuned CORRECTLY We have had the odd FZR here and I can assure u when this is done there is just no comparison to the bikes performance to beforehand. When your carbs are up to scratch and , unless youre 250kg , u may find out wat these are capable of.
Small displacement bikes are sought after in the US? Too many giant freaking egos here for that. The few that do go after the smaller displacement bike (particularly the grey market bikes) are the more level headed true motorcycle enthusiasts. The type that will do track days or racing. The type that will take a class to further their skills because they want to master riding their machines. Unfortunately, the bulk of the crowd here is not of that mindset. You're more likely to see some muscle bound idiot rocking his affliction wife-beater with his backwards baseball cap and Birkenstock sandles doing 140mph during rush hour on a liter bike, with his arms locked solid sitting straight up, counter-leaning everything but when they slow to a crawl to get over a bump into a driveway when the bike is just straight up (hey, I didn't say they did everything wrong.) I digress. I'll ride just about anything with an engine and 2 wheels, and have a blast doing it. I'm far from fast, so putting me on a bigger bike might get me to the braking point before the corner faster, but that s about it. I love my 250r. #1 it's cheap. #2 its FI, #3 it's light as hell compared to my 919, so flicking it through the twisties is just that much easier. I love my DRZ400. #1 it crashes well. #2 it's street legal, but I can throw it down in the dirt and not care (see point #1) I love my 250rr #1 18k+RPM of giggle, #2 see #1. #3 it's a blast to ride, but was more difficult than my 250r. This may have been due to the reasons why I tore the bike down to the frame. We shall see. This bike is much more race oriented, and certainly feels like it was meant to ride fast. Slow speed maneuvers (which I do practice frequently) seem difficult due to the layout of the gas tank and clipons. Yes, I can hit full lock. No, I do not like having my hand trapped between the bar and the tank. I love my 919. #1 plenty of power. #2 friendly ergos, #3 literbikebrodude gets punished by a bike thats heavier, with less power, and "isn't a true crotch rocket." Now before you go calling me egofreak, look up a couple of paragraphs where I say I'm not fast. I can beat the pop-music listening squid crowd because I've developed some skills, that is about it. I've been passed by teenagers on the track, and women on the street. There are a ton of people out there faster than me, but claiming your liter bike is going to school me is just going to make you look bad. This is one of my favorite examples of "250 vs the big bikes" Obviously the bulk of the 250s ability to keep up is due to the riders skill.
I concur. Before and after the rebuild of mine, she was two different animals. When I first had them rebuilt and only until recently, I couldn't get to full throttle between gears, before I had to change again. It's only now that it's worn in that little bit and if I'm trying, can I pin it. But not long after I do, it's roll off time for the next...
I wouldn't recommend this. Sure I may be noob too, but my mate (the one with the fizzer 1k) said "Only upgrade when YOU are OUTRIDING the bike" And his son that owned the FZR 250 that I later bought and used to help rebuild mine said the same thing. He wore the edges of the tyres out BEFORE the middle!
Not sure I understand the point your trying to make here Stu. I agree that you have to work harder to make the smaller bike perform than a lazy big one (why are Hardleys so popular), and a twist of the wrist brings instant acceleration, but the smaller bike gives (to me) more satisfaction when I get it right then simply adding more power. I don't feel that I have to justify what I ride, I ride it because I want to and enjoy doing it.
I am with you on this Murdo. My 350 road bike has more power and torque than you would ever need on the road. Riding it makes you lazy. I have the parts to turn it into 250cc and get the cheeper rego.
