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Project Today's spaghetti incident. Wiring is dumb. (Fuel injected ZXR project)

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by DamnitLaverty, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    And so it begins, it's time to leave the "what'd you do today" thread and accept that i'ma be doing a little every day on a reasonably aggressive timeline. I gotta get my stuff in a bucket!

    So i'ma start the project log here, not with where I was tonight, but where I was 4 years ago. This is gonna be a little different than most- typing all the time is exhausting. So instead, I'm gonna post poorly filmed update videos from my phone, and ask questions in text.

    So for the first post, here's the first 15 episodes of "Dear god, what did I get myself into?"

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBbSjEOipubPDcr3hB2GJvAU2L-cgIxy8
     
  2. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    Over the course of tonight's filming (which is currently uploading!) I ran into the oddest thing... my wiring is nothing like the ZXR manual that I downloaded from this site as a supporter.

    To paraphrase Sartre, "hell is previous owners"... this is shenanigans.

    Looks like the book on here is for a '97. I have a '91. Things aren't lining up.

    I have 10 wires going into my right side controls. The manual expects 6 from a later bike. 4 of those wires come out of an odd jumper harness from the fuse box (That has 3 less circuits than the manual tells me to expect- and 3 less than my new harness has!)... but neither that jumper, the 4 wires, OR the reciprocal plug at the bar are in the manual!

    Anyone have a wiring diagram for a '91?

    On top of this, the brown wire from the high beam flash on the left control is cut and tee'd into the yl/rd wire on the right controls- the wire to the engine stop switch! Has anyone ever seen this done? Is there a reason/purpose? The bike doesn't do anything untoward when I flip the switch with the bike on or anything... did they just pick a terrible place to tee in so they could flash lights with the bike off or something? I'm lost here!

    IMG_2640.jpg 62745622904__32D76DE2-4672-406F-8234-6FBFC37ABC75.jpg IMG_2642.jpg IMG_2641.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  3. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    ....and uploading images here crashed my browser, so I'm re-uploading tonights video now. Fun fun fun.
     
  4. Linkin

    Linkin The Apprentice Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    Looks like A model junction box and wiring harness, which probably means A model switch gear and ignition pickup too
     
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  5. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    Megazip resolved the part number I have as a 91-92 part number for the junction box, but I've no clue what the impact of having A model switch gear would be... I guess worst case I keep that jumper harness? - I just can't guarantee the pinouts of the A model box, can I?


    Really the only thing I'm mega concerned about keeping is that timing pickup- I'll see if mine plugs in to the new wiring tomorrow night.

    Here's tonight's video. No real substance, just some backstory to save watching 15 parts from the first post above. :)
     
  6. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    So curiouser and curiouser.
    My fuse block matches 1991 requirements.

    ... but I was looking at pics of a pristine bike with only 440km on it that showed up in Seattle recently, and it didn't have a light selector on the right bar like mine does. Looking on Megazip it appears the A models had a light selector on the control. Ebay seems to think it's shared between the 250/400/750, but now I don't know how far back the rabbit hole goes or how much to trust Ebay sellers. . Trying to make the wrong control work on the bike makes me think they tied the neutral spot on the switch into flash to pass to keep the bulb off or something but I'm well off in the realm of theory here. Looks like it's time to find a right control that matches my wiring harness, it's easier than backtracking everything! I looked at the plugs into the fuse block, they're the same shapes, but the pinouts are totally different so I don't get to just swap the old fuse block under my new modified wiring. The hardly ridden creampuff vs my bike:


    Screen Shot 2020-11-19 at 8.16.56 PM.jpg

    Since I don't need that selector to hit the salt, ima find the correct control, and then move to the late wiring harness with it as a group- my goal is to cut no wires on my stock harness, and I'm gonna have to tee into coolant temp, oil pressure and crank trigger, so I want to do that on this sacrificial harness, plus fire allll the CDI wiring. Good times.
     
  7. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    The left handlebar matches the representative sample I got pics of for a C model. The overlay harness doesn't match the wiring diagram on Megazip for the ZXR250A, so I am starting to feel like this is an aftermarket part that someone sold forever ago to retrofit light-control. Looks like Megazip still sells the correct control, but they want the better part of 140USD for it. Might have to suck it up, the only ones on Ebay are weathered to hell and back. Either that or I find a wiring diagram for a 1991, and see what's different pinout-wise in the fusebox (and then retain this extra harness) from the new 1994+ era one since supposedly this part number on my bike crosses to a 1991 bike.

    Per Megazip,
    26021-1080 - 1991 to 1993.
    26021-1089 - 1994 to 1999.

    Since the manual here on 2fiftycc is printed in 1997, this is one of the few places where things don't quiiiite line up for me.
     
  8. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    26021-1089 is 73.78 USD at Impex
     
  9. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    26021-1089 is the later junction box- I already have that.

    The part I end up needing is actually 46091-1439 (the right side bar controls), I see how in my scramble of thoughts last night that got lost in the shuffle. I'll check out Impex and see what comes up there.
     
  10. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    Wow. So I needs some helps!
    What I thought was gonna be a quick hookup is becoming a pain. Big big thanks to @ShaneP, if I was trying to do this on my 1991-spec wiring harness I'd be proper F'd on all this. At least my wire colors match now... but some make zero sense- and I found a wire that straight doesn't exist in the diagram! I'm hoping someone here knows what's up with CDI wiring, and can maybe lend a hand.

    Ive got most of the CDI surgically excised at this point. I know what's going to become the crank sensor wiring, I know how I'm gonna run the 12v to the mega squirt. I've found the tach signal wire. Here's where I'm lost, and I'm hoping y'all know what's up or can help guide the conversation.

    CDI Grey wire. Goes to the ignition switch. Why tho? I feel like it's acting as constant power for CDI and I can delete it. Thoughts?
    CDI Pink wire. In the diagram it deadheads at the gauge lighting connector. In reality it goes into the Speedo (verified by disassembling to a point). Any clue what this wire does? Why would the CDI inform the speedo at all? There's a cable!
    CDI Green/Black wire- goes from the CDI to the Junction box, diodes circuit, which seem to intersect the clutch interlock. This feels deletable as switched power to the CDI, but I'm afraid I'm reading it backwards and if I delete it, the interlock circuit won't work.

    Anyone who's been digging in these longer than me have any insight to the wire colors I mentioned? Related question- anyone know where I can get a real paper copy of the service manual that isn't full of photocopy artifacts? I'm really strugglin' here.
    IMG_2690.jpg
     
  11. ShaneP

    ShaneP Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The pink wire is a speed restriction, apparently, so leave it out. The grey wire might be the security wire: power goes through a resistor on the early Kawasaki to let the bike know it isn't being hotwired. Test resistance of the key switch (unplugged) to be sure. The green/black wire sounds like the starter cut-out circuit. It should junction through about 3 diodes: earth through neutral, side stand and clutch switch. It prevents you trying to start a bike in gear and going or riding off with the kickstand down. Hopefully that helps.
     
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  12. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    That’s definitely what the green wire is, I just don’t know if I need to give those diodes 12v or GND. :)

    the pink wire is a trip! DEFINITELY deleted lol that would have screwed me over on the salt. The grey wire is a trip to me, i will check further into it and see if it does end up as a security feature- good lookin’ out.
    I’ve said it before I’ll say it again, I’d be lost without this spot. Thanks man!
     
  13. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    You need the grey wire , as Shane said it has a 100 ohm resistor to stop them being Stolen , the cdi needs to see that resistance or the coils won’t fire
     
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  14. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    Except I fired the CDI entirely. I’ve removed it from the harness. If it has no purpose other than to the CDI, it’s gonna get fired too. I’m running to the coil on plug setups and a set of injectors direct- I’ll run some BIP373s in-line if I have to go to logic level firing for the coils. If the Grey wire has no other purpose, it’s done.
     
  15. ShaneP

    ShaneP Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Green wire to ground.
     
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  16. DannoXYZ

    DannoXYZ Active Member

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    you're going about this in reverse. Look at MS wiring first, then connect it to component on bike that it should connect to.
     
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  17. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    Already doing that. Had to get crank trigger signal from the CDI anyhow, and don’t have room on the bike for the module anymore. The stock harness is gonna run lights and gauges, MS has the rest of the functionality on the bike, damn near.
     
  18. DamnitLaverty

    DamnitLaverty Doing things the hard way since '78! Premium Member

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    So ive run into a few problems along the way, primary of which is I can't finish running the wiring until I know where the fuel rail is... Looks like I've got some Fusion time in front of me coming up. I'll tap in power, ground, and crank tomorrow though to verify I can connect.

    For now tho- Just a quick update so I don't have to type more.
     
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  19. ShaneP

    ShaneP Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I thought about an EFI zxr (had a few carby issues, and thought I could increase power), but haven't put as much thought into it. I would thought the trigger wiring would stay, the ECU plug go into the new ECU with the new wiring coming out of the ECU for injection and sensors? But I lack experience in this area. The red wire to the coils was constant power from the key and Killswitch; why did you seem to replace it?
     
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  20. DannoXYZ

    DannoXYZ Active Member

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    Eh? Crank-trigger signal comes from pickup-coils. Set MS for VR sensor.
    Best to remove ALL factory wiring and build new harness for MS to all components.
     
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