1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Yamaha YDS3 Cafe

Discussion in 'Yamaha 250cc 2 Strokes' started by phoxxanator, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    Hello all!
    I recently acquired a '65 YDS3 as a winter project and summer toy. The bike is done up in the cafe style - drop bars, custom seat and both fenders, tank off a Honda. In fact, there appears to be very little on the bike that hasn't been modified over the years. As part of this the autolube system was removed, so I'm back to mixing oil in the tank. And there I've run into a bit of a speedbump. I can't find any info online about the fluids for this engine. I was hoping someone here could point me towards a website (or a good manual!) I've overlooked, or help me from their own experience.

    The two big questions I'm chasing now are:
    What type of oil to mix in with the gas, and at what ratio?
    What fluid to use in the transmission and how much?

    Much thanks
     
  2. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    4,555
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    super 2 stroke oil at 25:1 ratio, transmission uses 20/50 engine oil that is not friction modified. as to quantity do not know as am going back to the 60,s.
     
  3. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  4. mboddy

    mboddy Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    333
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra
    My Bike:
    Yamaha 250cc 2 stroke
    Your old bike is not water-cooled and the pistons and cylinders are not made of the same alloy as the current two strokes.
    For cooling it is important to run enough oil to get good heat transfer from the pistons to the cylinder wall.
    At the ratio required a fully synthetic oil conforming to Jaso FD will have too much detergent.
    So you want a semi-synthetic oil conforming to Jaso FC.
    I use Penrite semi-synthetic at 24 to 1.
    I know of two independent dyno tests that were performed using this oil and they both came to the conclusion that 24 to 1 gave the best power with this oil.
     
  5. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,914
    Likes Received:
    6,709
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

    Messages:
    6,397
    Likes Received:
    4,786
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    1937 Royal Enfield 250, CF Moto 250 V5, Honda's XL250, CBR250, FT500 plus a few others.
    I have run Bel-ray MC-1 full synthetic in my Maico 250 enduro at 75:1 for the last 20,000 km with no problems and have still not yet replaced the single ring. (Maico recommend 100:1 but I just felt that a bit too lean.)
    Other jap two strokes I run with mineral or semi synthetic at 32:1 with no problems or clouds of smoke.
     
  7. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    Thank you everyone! I was totally unaware that selecting an oil was not a cut-and-dry process. Yes, I expect this motorcycle will be a great adventure in learning. Ironically, I live right across the street from a motorsports store; I'll take a walk over and see what they have for oils available.
    I've been an old-Volkswagen and -Saab guy for several years, so quirky vehicles are something of a fact of life at my house. The two-stroke bit is new to me though, so I've got a lot of theory and experience to catch up on. I am looking forward to asking many more completely uninformed questions over the next few months!
     
  8. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

    Messages:
    6,397
    Likes Received:
    4,786
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    1937 Royal Enfield 250, CF Moto 250 V5, Honda's XL250, CBR250, FT500 plus a few others.
    The oil pump and tank were probably removed by a PO because the oil pump on a DS3 is driven by the clutch, so when you sit at the lights with the clutch pulled in (and stopped) there was no oil going into the engine. Big revs on take off usually resulted in a seizure. Premix is a fiddle but is more reliable in these old engines. I have the next model DS5 with the oil pump engine driven.
    Run what ever oil you feel comfortable with, but remember that too much will only make smoke and foul plugs. Correct jetting of the carbs is more important than adding more oil. Have fun. :D
     
  9. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    Hello again guys, I'm back! YDS3 is coming along nicely, but a nice page of specs online still eludes me. I'm ready to fill the trannie back up, but can't find anything that says what sort of fluid to use, or how much. Does anyone know what to use? Murdo, GreyImport, what do you put in there?
     
  10. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    4,555
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    in the 60,s i ran 20/50 in the gearbox but no idea how much.
     
  11. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    6,872
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brisbane
    1.7 quarts, which I think is 1.6 litres, best to check the conversion , see attached PDF where it lists 1.7 quarts on page 329
     

    Attached Files:

    • yds3.pdf
      File size:
      899.9 KB
      Views:
      72
  12. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    Thank you sir, that document answers so many questions!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

    Messages:
    6,397
    Likes Received:
    4,786
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    1937 Royal Enfield 250, CF Moto 250 V5, Honda's XL250, CBR250, FT500 plus a few others.
    I run Castrol 4t 15w-50 motorcycle engine oil as this is JASO MA2 rated for wet clutches. Most motorcycle engine oils (except anything with 'friction modifiers' = clutch slip) would be suitable for two stroke gear boxes as they are straight cut teeth gears which do not have extreme loadings like a car gearbox.
     
  14. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    Well, I just pulled about 0.75 quarts of some form of motor oil out of the sump at the bottom of the bike. I know the PO had not changed the transmission fluid on this engine (and that's what I'm assuming I dumped...I can't imagine there would be that much unburned oil from the fuel system); the oil looked quite new (clear) but with some burned oil and metal shavings (!) mixed in. I can only find two places to add oil the transmission - the breather plug on the top (which the PO also custom modified, that's another story) and the oil level plug on the side of the crankcase cover. I fill my car transmission through a similar oil level plug, should I do the same here, or just pour it down the breather hole?
     
  15. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

    Messages:
    6,397
    Likes Received:
    4,786
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    1937 Royal Enfield 250, CF Moto 250 V5, Honda's XL250, CBR250, FT500 plus a few others.
    Normally fill through the breather with the level plug open, and fill till reaches level.
     
  16. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    I've been busy!
    Good news first:
    I changed the fork oil and cleaned the forks inside and out. Seals looked good so I left them, and filled the forks with 200cc of modern fork fluid (I asked for "spindle oil" at the MC shop across the road from me and they looked at me like I had 3 heads). I got the proper amount of 10w-30 oil in the gearbox, and discovered I only have a few leaks from there. Charged the battery, then changed the spark plugs, and added a little Marvel Mystery Oil to each cylinder. Mixed the gas (went with 32:1) and took her outside to fire up. Kicked the engine over a few times with the ignition off to move the oil around, then started her up for real. After sitting for 5 years the engine started on the first kick.

    The Bad:
    Since then I've had a constant "run away" problem: the engine is supposed to idle around 1200 RPM, but as it warms up it climbs pretty steadily to near 4000, and beyond with a small crack of the throttle. A couple of times it's continued running and climbing even after I switched the ignition off. (talk about exciting...) I took the carbs off, cleaned the connection to the cylinders (in case of vacuum leak) and put them back on tightly. I've got the idle mixture screw and the idle speed adjust (again, much thanks kiffsta, I'd be even more in the dark w/out that PDF) where they should be, and it seems much happier at idle. BUT, it still revs up in a quite concerning way when I pop it off the center stand to take it for a test ride.

    And I'm about stumped there. Fuel - check. Spark - check. Air - seems to be going in where it should be and not where it shouldn't. Oh, and I tightened the exhaust nuts to the cylinders too; both had a slight leak. Left side still leaks where downpipe mates to muffler, but only minimally. I'm also trying to get a little freeplay in my throttle cable, in case that's part of the problem. I THINK the slides in the carbs are all the way down at idle; they're certainly as far down as the cable allows at the moment. The part that really miffs me is this bike was running, a daily rider, when it was fogged and put to bed 5 years ago.

    Any ideas, friends?
     
  17. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    4,555
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    had a yds2 do this in the 60,s.crank case seals and there is a special labrynthe seal in the centre of the crank.only way i could stop the motor was to hold front and back brake on to lock the motor.
     
  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    +1 definitely sounds like a crankcase seal
    I think you now have rotary induction :D
     
  19. phoxxanator

    phoxxanator Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Connecticut USA
    My Bike:
    Yamaha YDS3
    Ugh! Doing my research now...I've got the Ds5 Parts Catalogue, and the YDS3 Engine Rebuild PDFs from the resources section. Do I need to split the case to get at the seal (seals? should I just go ahead and replace all of them at this point)? Or can I leave the engine on the bike and just pull the crankcase covers off. Trying to decide how much space to clear up in the garage haha...

    Thanks!
     
  20. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    4,555
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    to do the centre seal the crank needs to be removed and i believe pressed apart.end ones can be replaced easily by removing both covers.hope this helps.
     

Share This Page