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The Cherry Fizzer

Discussion in 'Yamaha 250cc In-Line 4's' started by Revolver, Sep 2, 2013.

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  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    sounds as though you've tried reverse bleeding from caliper -> mc reservoir

    Try drawing fluid down into the calipers using quick draws on the syringe and then closing the bleed nipples
     
    ruckusman, Mar 14, 2014
    #141
  2. risky

    risky risky

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    this may sound silly but maybe 2 person job. one to pump m/c and one to open and close caliper nipples at same time?
     
    risky, Mar 14, 2014
    #142
  3. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    I was just thinking before about disconnecting the banjos and filling the calipers with fluid, then purging the system through the lines. Then reconnecting them to the calipers.

    May just have to recheck all the hoses as I know the calipers and MC are clear.
     
    Revolver, Mar 14, 2014
    #143
  4. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Did that too. Just would up constricting the hose under the vacuum pressure.

    If all else fails I may just have to take it to a bike shop.

    Maybe next fortnight. Or the one after.
     
    Revolver, Mar 14, 2014
    #144
  5. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Did u see my post or did it get swamped by the 500 posts made 2 seconds after it?
     
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    GreyImport, Mar 14, 2014
    #145
  6. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK then work backwards - going from the banjo bolts at the calipers loosen them then the bleed nipples, try drawing with the syringe. - up to the joint on the triple clamp, then finally the master cylinder banjo bolt.

    Blocked bleed nipples? Suspect everything until you've checked it
     
    ruckusman, Mar 14, 2014
    #146
  7. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    I cleaned both bleed nipples the first time.

    I may just rip everything off and RE-re-test it.
     
    Revolver, Mar 14, 2014
    #147
  8. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    well you could start from the top - undo the banjo bolt on the master cylinder test for a blockage

    Suspicion is that's where it's located anyway as that's the smallest orifices in the whole system in the master cylinder & reservoir
     
    ruckusman, Mar 14, 2014
    #148
  9. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    This is what Im getting at ..... try bleeding at the top banjo , then at the junction , then at the caliper then at the nipple.

    If theres no flow out of fluid at any point then theres a blockage..... if fluid flows hopefully any air will expell.

    Have a read here so u know you are doing it all correctly

    http://2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/brake-bleeding-made-easy.1140/
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
    GreyImport, Mar 14, 2014
    #149
  10. Th3_Huntsman

    Th3_Huntsman Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Just read your thread, You have been busy!! Nearly there buddy!
     
    Th3_Huntsman, Mar 14, 2014
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  11. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Not to sound rude but how can it be? I stripped it naked, cleaned the holes, cleaned the scunge off the plunger, checked the seals on both the spring and plunger. There is no reason this should be.

    I kept checking the holes on re-assembly, as once a job is done, it stays done. I make sure there is no reason to redo it.

    Cheers, hopefully not much longer. Really wanting some seat time. Then the refining can begin!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2014
    Revolver, Mar 14, 2014
    #151
  12. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Alrighty, Maybe some progress.

    So what I have done is left the bleed nipples open, Resi cap on and Brake lever cable tied almost dead tight for 36 hrs now.

    I noticed that the resi level had come down, rubber cap had been partially pulled out (good sign) and there was a little bit of fluid in the bottle on the left hand calliper. Looks like a little gravity bleed has worked. I then decided to try and give them a quick bleed to see if anything would come out.

    After a few tries, I saw that there was brake fluid coming out. But only when the lever is full on. Some fluid was staying in the hose after coming straight out of the nipple. Nipple done up, lever out, started squeezing lever, nipple undone, sucks brake fluid back in, get to full bite, it bleeds out, lock nipple. Rinse & repeat on both sides. Same thing is happening. Keep it on full bite and fluid slowly drains out. Continuously. No change in lever pressure. Still as if it is all air.

    So anything but full bite on the lever is sucking the brake fluid (& air) back in.

    Erm, whats going on here??
     
    Revolver, Mar 15, 2014
    #152
  13. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK so follow this line of reasoning -

    With the bleed nipples open and the lever stroke going to full, then closing the bleed nipples, the space that about to become available in the system as the lever goes back out should be taken up by brake fluid drawn into the master cylinder.

    From what you've described, there is air in the system so rather than the available space being taken up by fresh fluid being drawn it, the bubbles are being pumped (expanded and contracted) instead. This is why the fluid at one of the calipers bleed lines goes backwards when you open it...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this all points to those tiny holes in the master cylinder - perhaps get some electrical wire, unwind one of the strands to get some really fine wire and check those holes that feel the master cylinder.

    I know all of the above has been said before...

    peace out
     
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    ruckusman, Mar 15, 2014
    #153
  14. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    ruckusman beet me to it, I agree with his thought. Again, I'm no expert but air is being drawn into the system therefore my conclusion would be to check master cylinder, something isn't correct.
     
    Phil, Mar 15, 2014
    #154
  15. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    I just had an epiphany.

    The bike got dropped hard on the right hand side. Just how hard is apparent by the scrape mark on the lever. And the old fairing. I also noticed that the return spring didn't extend to its "full reach" while reassembling. So I carefully stretched it out a bit.

    I wonder if the master cylinder has been damaged. Hairline crack, damaged the plunger seal and it has been letting air in. Maybe still is.

    I can tell you guys those holes are clear. The seal for the reservoir hose is correctly inserted.

    I'll still pull it apart, check and post up photos of it.
     
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    Revolver, Mar 15, 2014
    #155
  16. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    That will do it, because those holes to replenish the system with new fluid only open when the master cylinder is fully open, the plungers inside close those holes off very soon into the stroke to apply the pressure to the calipers

    Now it's just about why it's not returning all the way - sticking brake lever the adjustment screw and lock nut messed up somehow
     
    ruckusman, Mar 15, 2014
    #156
  17. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    It's not actually the lever. It's the master cylinder plunger that is getting stuck. The lever is flopping around when that happens. So you have to "hit" the plunger with the lever to get it return to full open position.
     
    Revolver, Mar 15, 2014
    #157
  18. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Sounds like a new spring is in order ... at the very least :D
     
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    GreyImport, Mar 15, 2014
    #158
  19. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Agreed
    that is an easy fix, new kit should see you back on the road.
     
    Phil, Mar 15, 2014
    #159
  20. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    That's what I am thinking. Been trawling ebay for a few pieces. Both Rebuild kits and master units.

    I've already emailed this bloke, and he wont separate the MC and Calipers. Wants me to buy them both, then on sell them. Soooo, Anyone need any Triumph Speed Triple Calipers? :lolsign:

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Triumph-...7254&clkid=5505008371258501294&_qi=RTM1582274
     
    Revolver, Mar 16, 2014
    #160
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