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The Cherry Fizzer

Discussion in 'Yamaha 250cc In-Line 4's' started by Revolver, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    looks good mate :thumb_ups:

    If u had alot of play in your cable that may have caused the idling ups and downs.

    Heres whats what on the carbs .....

    Carb Screws.jpg
     
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  2. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Ok so Thursday was a push to get the bike done. Finito.

    First was getting the front wheel off. Got it down to the bike shop and got them to put another Michelin Sport pilot on the front. While that was happening I was grabbing some assorted bolts for the fairing & guards. Some bolts are a little longer than standard but I'll cut them down. So all up bolts and new front tyre (110 wide, as they were out of stock on the 100) 135. It's good to have mates. I used to work with the accessories manager at the bike shop near my mates place. So I get good prices on a lot of things.....

    So brought the wheel back and fitted it temporarily to degrease, wash and paint the front forks. Put the wheel and calipers back on and it's back on to re-assembly. What happened after this has been a bit of discovery.

    So knowing that everything has been done, is was time for re-assembly I started to get a feeling of pride and accomplishment. But the job was far from done.

    Chain re-oiled (paddock stand helped with that!), chain guard attached, refitted Airbox, clamped down the funnel clamps, bolted down the tank, fitted up the (beautifully polished) foot guards, a few other little bits an pieces like the ram air tubes, then decided it was time to mask up and paint the masked areas on the inside of the fairing.

    And just cause I'm proud of these and want to show-boat them

    [​IMG]

    While doing this I glanced at the bike and noticed that one ram air tube was where it should be and the right side one (dropped side) was vertical. This is why:

    [​IMG]

    So I grabbed the biggest pair of multigrips and pliers and set about massaging that sub-frame tube and bracket into place. But I noticed the bike slid forward on the paddock stand when grunting and heaving. So I came up with a very high tech solution to prevent any more slippage and an accident:

    [​IMG]

    Cable ties... What aren't they good for?

    So after more grunting, heaving, twisting, torquing, head turning and squinting, I got both the sub frame and bracket straightened.

    Then I set about fitting the mudguard. Only problem is that the manufacturing tolerances from the Chinese fairing, and the (crappy) made up bracket for the original mudguard foul against each other. Bit of a problem here. Unfortunately I was is in so much of a rush that didn't take a photo of the issue. Put simply the bracket doesn't follow the curvature if the new guard. With the old guard, it's perfect. And I sold the other bracket when I sold the guard from the 2KR. :( bugger. It's a flimsy bracket that was made for this one.

    While I temporarily had a second pair if hands i set about mounting the cowl. Forgetting that I should have mounted the screen first and one of those holes new to be drilled for it to fit properly. Bugger. So after that I dummy mount the mirrors only to find that the holes are a tiny but out and a tiny bit smaller than the cowling. Ugh. Damn cheap fairing.

    After all that it was 1130 PM and it was time to call it a night.

    This is how she sat:

    [​IMG]

    I typed this last Friday night but didn't have enough time to finish it and there has been a development with the bike since.... Will update later today.
     
  3. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    The update you have been waiting for! (Best read with a brew in hand)

    I thought that I was unable to work in the bike on Monday due to pest control coming to do a termite inspection at 1pm. At 9:50 I got a knock at the door and the bloke asked if I like he could do it now. Um... SURE. 30 mins later I am on my way to the bike.

    So the rest of the day was focused on on taking off the front cowling again, and fixing and issue that Fizzers are famous for.... The dreaded cowling break up at the point of where the mirror bolts though the cowling and onto the subframe. So with the concern of cracking it in 6 months, I decided to fix the problem. I cut a few pieces of rubber and kwik gripped them together cut them to size, punched a hole in them, and fitted them in between the the fairing and subframe:

    [​IMG]

    See the problem as I see it, is there is no buffer in between he cowling and subframe, is tightened down and bends to the contour of the frame, causing stress on the fairing, and with all the buffeting an vibration, it eventually cracks it, right the way through and/or off. Hopefully this solves the problem. As you can see there is already a twist in the fairing even with these rubber inserts. I also cut out a foam spacer for in between the mirror and cowling just to minimize paint damage.

    Also drilled the windscreen hole I was talking about that was needed to fit to the cowling.

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure if this is a problem with the windscreen manufacture or the cowling cast. Could be either.

    So cowling fitted up it was time to start getting things in order to put the rest of the fairing on. First was the indicators. Something wrong here?

    [​IMG]

    After some more massaging, I managed to get it straight. Well straight enough. My mate said that whenever these things get dropped, the cowling subframe is the first to be chucked when the bike is being repaired. And that's why. You never get it right. So I will have to find a new one.

    Fairings were installed. Didn't have the grommets. I bought some new bolts. Just no grommets. But I found a replacement. 10 points to whoever can guess what these are. They are from the old bike:

    [​IMG]

    Filled out the fairing hole exactly and cut some rubber pieces to sit behind and cushion the fairing against the mounts. Finito.

    Decided to call it a night there and pick it up early in the morning.

    Tuesday: D-day

    So got the girlie to drop me off on the way to work. Saves me driving back & forward with a car or bike stuck at my mates place.

    Started to clean up the rest of the fairing. The girlfriend had spilt something on the box that the faring was in and it had stuck onto the fairing. Just started this when the bloke for the Roadworthy turned up. Wasn't expecting him this early. My last check on all systems, everything worked fine. And now the horn didn't work and the front brake lever was keeping the brake light on. AARGH!

    "Give me a call after you've fixed those" he said and walked out. He was also suspect about the engine number not being on the top of the engine but rather the front.

    5 mins after he left it all started working..... You must be kidding me. Called him back and told him and said he'd be round later. This gave me some time to finish putting the fairing on. And print out the PPSR report to show that the bike wasn't stolen and the engine number was in fact what it should be. This helped when he came back. Saw that both worked, had a quick chat and I had the RWC in my hot little hand.

    So that left me cleaning off the fairing and fitting it up. Hot water got rid of whatever had been spilt on it, and a bit of filing of the bolt holes and some casting ridges and it was all good.

    Then there was the mudguard, jeez, that mudguard. Thanks to that crappy guard bracket, it caused me no end of troubles trying to fit it to the guard to fit it to the bike. Screw on, slide in, bolt up, align bolt holes and slide out- redrill. Rinse and repeat. Finally I got it to safely fit but I will need a replacement OEM item.

    Bike done. Now to register. Transport dept closed at 430. Walked it after paying the CTP at 4:15. PHEW.

    So with all that done it was just a case of fitting up the number plate and dropping it off the paddock stand and test riding it.

    I throw on my jacket, boots, gloves and helmet, start the bike, and engage first. This is the end of a 7 year journey. I took it around the block a few times nice and slow to get a feel of the bike. Everything is fine. No flooding, no creaks or groans, no noises other than the inline 4 going through the gears. It sounds and feels good.

    I turn around, head back to my mates place, with him in the driveway I coast it in slowly, grinning like an idiot.

    Mission Accomplished!

    From there it was a quick tidy up and ride off home.

    My mates son turned up on his bike (who owned my 2kr) and the keys were thrown to him to give it a test just to see if there was anything I missed with my limited experience. It got his seal of approval. "This is a great bike".

    Then it was a ride past my place out to where my dad's place is and turn back and come home with my mate to see how I can ride.

    I did ok. I pinned the throttle on the onramp to the motorway and took it to 14k in third. Saw the speed I was doing said "damn, this thing is fast" and rolled off the throttle. After that it was 6th gear all the way to the servo.

    Pulling in I hit where the gear lever should be. Foot finally falls on the gear lever "oh there it is" hit it again. Revs stay the same and I keep tapping to back it down the cogs. Finally I clutch it to a stop turn off the bike and look down at my lever:

    [​IMG]

    Dere sood be sumting ere.

    Whoopsie! Didn't tighten those locknuts enough! Managed to get it home in first fitted up the shaft from the 2kr assembly (albiet bent) and fitted it up. Also tightened up the footpeg bolt. The peg was loose.


    Another update from the past few days when I can finish it!
     
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  4. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Excuse he (the) atrocious spelling up there in (on) the last post. My iPhone is 4 years onl (old) and gets condused (confused) when typing becaus (brcause) (that's BECUASE PHINE, I SAID "PHONE", PHONE!).

    You can see the highlighted errors in this post alone that shows what I have to deal with. And no matter how many times I proof reaf (read) I catch more errors!
     
  5. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    you're be very happy indeed, I would be too

    great work
     
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  6. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Forgot the finished pics after the first ride:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    I thought that I would break this into two posts due to the length.

    So I fitted up the other gear shifter shaft and found that peg and assembly was loose so I tightened them right up. Then decided to take the thing one a ride late that night with no traffic. Not 1 k up the road it stalls on the way up the hill. At first i thought I was in too high a gear and flooded it. Got it going, did my trip, stops, starts, low & high speeds, not an issue. Fueled up and went to come home. Stopped at the stop sign went to take off. Flooded again. Once again thought it may have been me with not enough throttle & too much clutch released. But as I went to start it I noticed that distinct sound I know of now to be a flooded carbie.

    Got going and a few hundred meters down the road, almost home I heard what I thought was a cry, like screeching brake rotor. Just shrugged it off as not bring used to the bike.

    Then I when I used it friday morning I heard that same screech. Thought i was hearing things as it was in the exact same spot as the last time I heard it. Maybe a suspension squeal? Continued on my journey. Stopped at my first stop at my daughters swimming class then went to leave again. Flooded on take off. Did a few more stops then took off from my last one. Flooded crossing a two lane road and died. Not the right time! Flooded at the next lights and died. Then started to flood a little further down the road while riding at 60ks an hour and died at the round about. Died at the next set of lights, so I went to push the bike off the road and onto a traffic island.

    Just as I went to push the bike away it was hard to move. Just got it off the road and it refused to move any further. The front brakes locked on. And I had barely used them the previous two days. I always used the back brakes. I used them to stop the bike rolling back at the round about but that's it.

    I tap each rotor. Each sizzles from the sweat on my hands. They are seriously hot. That would mean that the brakes have been stuck on. Even enough to heat up the rotor enough for it to expand and lock on the brakes. I hit the brake lever. It's rock hard. I shove a spanner in and try to pry the pads away from the rotor. They look like they moved. Pack everything up and ride it home and do not touch the front brakes at all. As I roll into my garage (which is uphill) it floods again.

    Are you kidding me?

    So today I had a look at the rotors:

    [​IMG]


    They have been running pretty damn hot by the looks of that.

    So I pulled off the calipers to see if they are seized. (Although they have been working stopping me from rolling down my driveway etc.) lots like one piston isn't moving. Could be seized. But that shouldn't make both calipers stay compressed. Also pulled off the reservoir and found the point where the line to the master cylinder clamps onto the reservoir has been bent and broken:

    [​IMG]

    So that needs replaced before I can investigate anything else. Also found some crap in the reservoir as well. I think some moisture has gotten in at some point.

    Also may need to replace the master cylinder, the seal isn't the best:

    [​IMG]

    The adjustable brake lever really needs to be replaced too. It is bent from being dropped. But I have been looking at a couple of these on eBay even before this. I could go to the 3ln1 master cylinder that is not adjustable (which I have somewhere) but really dont want to.

    Also pulled the brave lever a few times while looking at the calipers an found this one (the one that is out the least) not to move at all out of all 8 pistons. Also shows some skewing on the brake pad wear:

    [​IMG]

    Also found that gear lever peg is also really loose after I ratcheted it right down. I'm gonna need to slap on some locktite on it. It would be the third time i have tightened it down.

    Also need to adjust the gear shifter down a little. I have to lift my leg up to shift up and take my foot off the peg and push down on the lever. Instead of the flick up and flick down with the foot.

    Looks like those three days of riding will be the last for a little while :(

    ARRGH!
     
  8. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    it's just air in your brake lines or calipers or both - vacuum bleed them
     
  9. risky

    risky risky

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    pump them out a bit and clean the crud off then push back in with a clamp. only then re assemble and bleed. if a piston is frozen this can work.
     
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  10. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Ok So yesterday I went ahead with a mate and tried to get the brake issues sorted out. Checked which ones worked, and it was that only one above that didn't. Pulled the calliper apart and it had some crap in it, reassembled and stripped the front brake system, right up to the master cylinder. A lot of crap came out. Cleaned, dried re assembled, gave the master cylinder a quick inspection and drained as much fluid out as possible.

    Re-assembled it all and started on a bleed. We spent over an hour and a half attempting to bleed the system, and we started to get fluid on the left, got fluid on the right for a minute, then the next 20 mins was air, and air, and air. And the fluid wasn't moving in the reservoir. Bubble and and an occasional squirt, but nothing. Even tried to put our mouths around the reservoir and blow it through, and nothing. Not any calliper movement whatsoever. We started to think it may be the Master Cylinder. Finally my mate had to go home, so called it a day.

    After he had gone, I pulled the hose out of the master, and sqeezed the lever, alot of fluid came out. Tried it again. Nothing, put my thumb over the hole, got some pressure, then as I released the pressure off the lever, it sucked the pressure off my thumb.

    I wonder if its a master cylinder problem. if there is a leak or blockage. The plunger seal is pretty ratty. Broken, perished and frayed. I wonder if this is the issue.

    So I may be up for a new master cylinder or a rebuild of one. At the same time I believe it would be advantageous (if not mandatory) to rebuild the Calipers esp since we cannot find out if that one piston is actually siezed. So I may go ahead, rebuild the cylinder, sort out all these problems only to have to go trough it all again because I need to rebuild the calliper.

    Problem is currently, I honestly I dont have two spare 5c pieces to rub together. So its looking to be off the road for the next month or more before I can even afford to get the parts.

    And I cant trust second hand pieces as I may be inheriting the exact same problem....
    :headbang::headbang::headbang::commando::commando::commando::headbang::headbang::headbang::commando::commando::commando::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
  11. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    It only takes a tiny bit of grit to block up the holes in the MC .... if the rest of the system was full of crap then the MC will be also.

    Did u replace the reservoir ?

    Drain the fluid out .... take all the connections off the MC including the lever.

    Fill up a container full of metho to cover the MC ..... then press the plunger in and out with your finger to get the metho inside to clean it out.

    My MC on the 3LN1 is a different setup but I would say if you look where I have marked below then there would be a tiny hole that obviously needs to be clear ..... on my setup the tiny holes that allow fluid to flow from the MC were blocked by a spec of grit.

    Get fluid running to the calipers before spending time and money on them ..... 1 step at a time.


    3LN3 MC.jpg
     
  12. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    FWIW my calipers were fairly clean, though close to seized because of dried out brake fluid in and around the seals and some adhering onto the pistons.

    I took my time and cleaned them sparkling, re-used the same seals which were soaked in brake fluid from the moment they were removed till they were re-installed.

    It cost me nothing but time and effort and I am 100% confident in all of my brakes.

    I did a not too spectacular endo just the other day.

    Vacuum bleeding is much more efficient BTW, trying to get an air bubble down a vertical brake line with just pumping the lever is hell

    peace out

    If you want tips on getting the pistons out just holler...
     
  13. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    What do I need to vacuum bleed them? I'm guessing that is different from pressure bleeding them. As one is pushing and one is pulling.

    Rucks, what I am worried about, is if the caliper is seized or rather that one piston, is a perished seal or slicing or pinching one while disassembling. And due to not having another set to go in, means your well and truly stuffed. My mate who owns the FZR 1000 has always taken on the mantra of "if it needs replacing, buy it new, and know its new" there is that piece of mind that it's a brand new and won't need replacing for quite awhile.

    Grey, I did replace the reservoir. Brand newy direct from yamaha. That reservoir line into the MC. Do you know how I get that out? I didn't want to force and break it.
     
  14. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Ill have a look at Grasshoppers 3LN3 tom0rrow and see if I can get it off and report back.

    Heres some info on brake bleeding .... theres a few different methods.

    http://2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/brake-bleeding-made-easy.1140/
     
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  15. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I use an old fridge compressor into a reservoir to make certain the fluid doesn't go through the motor. You can do just as well with a large 60ml syringe, it's the speed of the draw that will move the air bubbles down.

    I'll take a pic tomorrow for you - it's a simple setup

    I'm with your mate on that, the key phrase is if it needs replacing. My bike was last registered in 2004 - off the road 9 years before I got it and my brake seals whilst dirty & soiled with dried fluid were actually in great condition.

    All of my pistons were close to seized/stuck. Best way to get them out is to get the fluid back into the calipers and use the lever to pump them out blocking them in the centre with some timber or steel to get the persistent ones out before the easier ones come free.

    Take the time get the seals clean with isopropyl alcohol (never methylated spirits as it can strip plasticisers making the rubber brittle) then soak them in fresh brake fluid whilst cleaning the calipers.

    Re-assemble with rubber grease

    The master cylinder reservoir seal that you mention as being torn & tattered is only a dust seal ad easily replaced later without complete disassembly. It doesn't influence the safety of the internal master cylinder fluid seals.
    Do replace it as soon as possible though.

    peace out
     
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  16. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Both FZRs here have the combined reservoir/MC setup .... but heres the ZXR and Id assume it would be the same arrangement....

    Drain all the fluid out the caliper bleeders .... pull off the pipe

    MC1.jpg


    pull up the rubber seal

    MC2.jpg


    remove circlip

    MC3.jpg

    Wiggle the fitting gently upwards as it will be bound in by the o ring ..... hold the elbow at the bottom end to avoid breaking it.

    MC4.jpg


    If u look closely u can see how small the openings are and if theres any grit in there then no fluid will flow.
    If u push the plunger (or pull the lever) u will see how it works. ( not with any fluid in there or it will spit u in the eye)

    MC5.jpg
     
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  17. risky

    risky risky

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    i flush with metho though ruckus does not recommend.then let dry and new fluid.brake fluid absorbs water and then boils at a lower temperature.when storing the fluid always keep the lid screwed on.
     
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  18. Revolver

    Revolver Big Member Premium Member

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    Actually that looks to be the same master cyl as the 3LN3 onwards. Interesting....
     
  19. risky

    risky risky

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    would be interesting to see if the m/c bore and the caliper pistons are the same size?
     
  20. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Joined:
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    Gender:
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    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Brake components are like carburettors and even suspension ..... they are manufactured by individual companies (Brembo, Mikuni etc ) not by the bike manufacturers themselves so they can be universal.

    Heres a further indication of what lies beneath ....

    MC6.jpg
     
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