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Help FZR250 Transmission bearing and other questions

Discussion in 'Yamaha 250cc In-Line 4's' started by ruckusman, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Hi Guys,

    looking for the output shaft transmission bearing, managed to do a walk in & walk out at the local bearing place for the other three bearings - part numbers 8, 10 & 30 were easy

    http://www.firstclassmotorcycles.co...yamaha/1998/fzx25-zeal/transmission#ficheZone

    Part 23 isn't so simple - It's a Koyo bearing - 83B139SH2 - http://www.firstclassmotorcycles.com.au/part/yamaha/9330620217#top
    Yamaha Part 93306-20217
    This page has other potential candidates, https://all-bearings.com.ua/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5771&tag=SKF:+616073

    although I'm not sure about the SKF bearing and the other alternative, 156704 as some pages list them as dual row

    The guy at Shep City Bearings said he could probably source one in a month or so, which right now isn't looking so bad considering that I'm not getting worthwhile hits on google.

    Has anyone else managed to source one of these, it does come up as available via Yamaha dealers and I've tried the other places, partzilla etc

    Just not fond of getting gouged for one bearing, considering that I managed the other three bearings for less than the price of one OEM oil seal

    On a related note, the oil seal from this page, part 2 seems to have two variants, one normal and one with a secondary external lip on the inside edge which I wasn't able to source

    http://www.firstclassmotorcycles.co...a/1998/fzx25-zeal/crankshaft-piston#ficheZone

    Has anyone done an engine with the normal seal, because I'll opt for one of those if that's a viable option.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Did you notice that some of the bearings are C3 and have grooves for retaining rings?
     
  3. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I did notice some variances in the actual uses of some "equivalents"; dual row deep groove for a Lada transmission, others are for wheel bearings, which I assume are angular contact cylindrical bearings, so not at all suitable.

    Proper specs pages on actual bearing manufacturers site are non-existent thus far, so I haven't seen any with tolerance differences and most hits are for generic pages on Chinese sites

    Curiously, this page has detailed specs, up to and including the clearance in the part number, however the internal bore dimensions are different 22mm (wrong?), and I haven't managed to remove the sleeve which goes beside the front sprocket yet to actually verify in I.D.

    http://www.automotivebearing-xr.com/displayproduct.html?id=2848450606171520

    FWIW all of the other bearings have retaining grooves and they were at a standard location for easy substitution as the guy at the bearing shop asked first thing, what is it out of as some motorcycle bearing have that retaining groove at non-standard locations.
    Before going in I actually thought that a retaining groove would be a difficult ask, which wasn't the case at all.

    PITA to have to shovel out 5X the price for a bearing, and that's assuming that it doesn't take a month to be delivered anyway, if it's actually available at all from Yamaha...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  4. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Well good news about the retaining grooves. Often they are nothing like the standard bearing parts.
    The common sizes are available in C3 (a looser tolerance) you just need to ask for them at the bearing shop. The countershaft sprocket bearing will be C3 to allow for all the torque when the sprocket nut is tightened.
     
  5. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Well Yamaha dealer came back to me and said the part is NLA

    So I either find another source or leave the original in there and replace the other three

    @Linkin @GreyImport @Joker or anyone else that's had a few of these apart - I cannot seem to budge the sleeve which goes inside the sprocket on the countershaft - has anyone else encountered this issue?
     
  6. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  8. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Well spotted, however that's one of the sites which lists different i.d. dimensions and I haven't yet managed to remove the sleeve off of the shaft to check the internal dimensions
     
  9. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I've already contacted that site, waiting to hear back

    I cannot remove the sleeve on the shaft so I'm disinclined to use any force at the moment as I don't want to damage the bearing in case it needs to go back in to service
     
  10. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    Any pictures to understand what your problem is?
     
  11. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    IMG20190925083556.jpg IMG20190925083606.jpg The sleeve that goes onto the countershaft doesn't seem to want to budge, I've put vice grips on the sleeve and given the end of the shaft a tap with a rubber mallet - no luck

    Going to try a decent amount of heat next

    I just wasn't expecting it to be as stuck as it seems to be and I don't want to support the bearing and start hitting it with some force just yet as I don't have a replacement for the bearing as yet
     
  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Got a bearing puller?
     
  13. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Not yet, although it's looking increasingly inevitable
     
  14. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Take the shaft with you when you go to buy it so that you can make sure the jaws fit.
     
  15. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    I suggest heating with hot air gun and two large flat blade screwdrivers (or similar) behind the sleeve and use bearing outer collar as a leverage point.
     
  16. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    AAH, that's a good tip, I tried heating with the small flame of a butane soldering iron, not enough juice to get it hot enough and I'd forgotten that I have a heat gun
     
  17. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Is that the replacement shaft that you are going to fit? I forgot what the original problem was.
     
  18. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    That is the replacement shaft.

    The other one was kaput because nut came loose, the the sprocket slipped off of the shaft and mangled the threads so the nut was welded back in place and following that the sprocket slowly mangled the splines till the whole thing stopped spinning.

    I was hoping to replace all of the bearings when I put the whole shebang back together, but until I can remove the sleeve I cannot actually replace the bearing, it I can find a replacement...
     
  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    I would not worry about all the mistakes that are shown regarding the width of the bearing. Just mistakes by sellers. If it has the correct number then you are good to go. I asked that Brazilian site if they have one in stock.
     
  20. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    That SKF 156704 might be a good substitute. It will certainly take more radial load than the OEM part. Just need to check the limiting speed. I don't expect it will be an issue. Some of the bearing distributors have resident engineers and you can check with them first. Just calc the max rpm of the shaft before you do, could be useful. I would go for a synthetic cage etc. Don't try to save money with a steel cage thing. The other thing that I would do is torque up a sprocket on the shaft to make sure the bearing does not bind before you fit. You should get a C3.
     

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