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MC22 Track Ready Project

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Damus, May 11, 2015.

  1. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    Update:
    Okay so I have re-adjusted the pilot screws to 1 3/4 turns out (or just shy of 1 3/4 turns out by 1mm to be exact on all 4).
    To make up for all the lack of photos I decided to make a start up video.
    Now the bike hasn't been started at all today, so the bike was 100% cold, I also took the carbs off before hand to get easy access to the screws for an accurate adjustment off all 4 without things getting in the way.
    First thing I noticed is that I had to turn up the idle speed screw because it had dropped significantly, after getting it to about 1.5k revs I did a handful of rev checks to see if it slightly hung before going back to normal to ensure when the engine warmed up that the setting should be perfect. From the hand full revs I did it did hang ever so slightly before returning to normal idle, this does seem to be a very successful setting but I am yet to fully warm up the bike and take it for a spin to confirm, along with the balance which as you can see is keeping the idle exceptionally steady the bike should be in extremely good shape.



    Now being that I have 2 #105 jets on the way for the center 2 carbs I also remembered to take into account that the 2 middle carbs also have longer velocity stacks than the outside pair, in my head I figured "hey if I am trying to make all 4 cylinders run the exact same I will need to replace the long stacks with short stacks" thanks to kiff I was able to acquire another 2 stock short velocity stacks for the mc22 to replace the two inner long ones with.

    After this thought I did some research on the affect of long vs short velocity stacks and came across an article of a person who dyno'd short vs long velocity stacks and a handful of other articles pretty much indicating that 4 all short velocity stacks are going to provide better top end. In fact his results ended up being better all round with the 4 all short.
    He did also notice that he had to drop a jet size with the long velocity stacks to get it to come closer to matching top end of the short stacks, this is pretty much a clear indicator that having the bigger jets on the inside with the stock velocity stacks on the mc22 is going to result in poor performance so for those of you running bigger jets on the inside you should consider swapping the velocity stack configuration.
    I still believe the reason Honda did this configuration was to smoothen the entire rev range, the smaller jets in the middle was probably just a result of the longer velocity stacks and together they will improve the range where the short stacks with a size up jets suffer.
    Source: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=50044.0
     
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  2. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Damus on his way to the garage ..... :D

    white-coats-300x300.jpg
     
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  3. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Absolutely agree with that.

    A lot of the manufacturers, bike and car, are using variable length versions now. This is what tuning is all about. Working with the intake and exhaust length/shapes in an effort to match the camshaft timing that will give you the power you want when you want it. Changing jets for no reason is pointless.

    I have some links that you may find interesting http://www.litetek.co/links.html The exhaust story is a good read. Kawasaki have always put a lot of work into their header design. I always like to see what they are up to. Here is a shot of one of their tapered headers, from a 1000 I believe. This one is widely, and wrongly (as usual), reported on the internet as tapering from small to large.

    [​IMG]
    cheers
    Blair
     
  4. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    That's what I wear, plus gloves of course :)
     
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  5. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    "I have some links that you may find interesting http://www.litetek.co/links.html The exhaust story is a good read. Kawasaki have always put a lot of work into their header design. I always like to see what they are up to. Here is a shot of one of their tapered headers, from a 1000 I believe. This one is widely, and wrongly (as usual), reported on the internet as tapering from small to large."
    I will have a read for sure, usually all my reading in relation to exhaust flow quickly comes to an end because the mc22's stock system is pretty much as good as it gets for top end focus. But more information and how it effects everything else is always good!

    Side note:
    I just took the bike for a ride just now, I was pretty disappointed to begin with... But once it hit 1/3 warmed up my opinion changed #understatement of the year.
    However after sitting at a few lights and it heating up to half way I reved the engine and noticed it dropped below idle slightly again, now I am scratching my head do I drop it back to 1 and 2/3 turns to aim for half way heat? I am starting to think maybe a combination of the straight through can and the lack of a sub air filter is causing increased throttle response make it very obvious when it isn't quite right.


    "Damus on his way to the garage ..... :D"
    lol I have 2 goals:
    1. Beat simons 1:48.219 at eatern creek with my mc22.
    2. Followed by beating the 300cc production record of 1:46.762 done by a ninja 300 (because there is no way the mc22 isn't a better bike than the ninja300.

    And I need all the help I can get, So bring out the laboratory!

    If I can accomplish that then at that point I can say I have the right to buy a 600 lol.

     
  6. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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  7. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    Id love to do it by ear but they make the screws almost impossible to get to without taking the carbs off, unless there is some easy way someone has figured out?
     
  8. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    I'm going to remove the front left rotor+bolts, caliper, bracket and line from my mc22 to make the front single disc instead of dual.
    The bike only probably weighs around 140ish kg if that and it's pretty damn obvious that the duel setup is
    1. Overkill for the weight of the bike.
    2. Less consistent than a well set up single.
    3. Adding so much unnecessary weight to the front of the bike
    4. Making my steering heavier because of the braided line.

    All in all it just doesn't make any sense to me what so ever and I refuse to accept such an obvious design flaw perhaps only added an unessesary sales novelty.

    Everyone all good with that?
     
  9. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Absolute rubbish

    Lay off the crack for awhile

    :headbang:
     
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  10. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    No, many bikes this weight and size run 1. Also bigger and lighter bikes run 1.
    I don't plan on going spastic with breaking and I doubt break fade will be an issue with a 300mm rotor.
    Considering the normal cbr250r is single and practically the same bike maybe you should open you mind to the possibility that it's overkill.
     
  11. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    Let's break it down shall we.
    There is probably gyroscopic merit to dual but on the same token that's countered be having a front end that's already copping most of the bikes weight when braking to then have an extra 2kg stacked on top for the sake of "more surface area" to keep the brakes cool when our bikes can only go to 180 if that once per lap.
    Also there is no dispute that 1 well set up disk isn't going to provide more accurate feedback and control than 2 separate calipers wearing in completely different ways.
     
  12. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    Hey Damus,

    I see where you are coming from and agree with your thought process in principle , the CBR250R MC19 is a single disk bike with the same engine and the same HP. If this was a track only bike I would say go for it, I think @mboddy did a similar mod to his race bike to reduce weight on the front end . As this is a road bike, I would hazard a guess that modifying it from a twin to single disk would require engineering certification to be deemed safe on the road, if you binned it and hurt someone then I would say they would go after you for modding your bike, its a fine line mate. Your brake MC is sdesigned to pump fluid for 2 calipers, how will it work with a single caliper ?

    Personally, I would leave it as is.

    If you want to go faster, then look at legal weight reduction options such as carbon fibre fairings, an aluminum radiator or do some advanced riding training on a track until your ability outweighs your ambition. As I said, I appreciate the thought process, I would hate to see you in ending up in court with a big court case against you because you modded your bike and it didn't function as is should which caused an accident.

    My 2c

    Kiff
     
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  13. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    Yeah the normal road did cross my mind, there has been instances where the dual discs have saved me from badness on the street because of the sheer sudden stopping power they can apply at a moments notice, totally solid point.
    That being said though where does one really draw the line, I mean the rear sets, muffler, braided lines, heavy duty clutch, shorty levers, pro grips etc etc aren't exactly legal either.
    But I guess mainly because it actually saves me from crashing (which has never happened touch wood) I will leave it as is until something else takes it's place on the road.
     
  14. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    I knew eventually you would answer it for yourself
     
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  15. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    Im going to order one of those coats, I keep wrecking my good t shirts
     
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  16. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    I have had a bit of a one track mind lately. Ended up spending at least 10 or more hours over the last 2 days going over every minuscule detail of all the mc14e engine models and what hrc did and didn't do etc too much passion for the machine not enough time on the track.
     
  17. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    You need a seperate track bike ..... then u can even put wings on it like the MotoGP boys
     
  18. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    what HRC mods are available for the MC41e \ CBR250RR ? , I know there is a HRC cdi, but from memory the blue fox one yielded better results
     
  19. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Know the feeling .... I was even thinking about going back to overalls like I used to wear back in the early days of spannering
     
  20. Mclaren

    Mclaren Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Well ur wrong mate punching out 45.8hp looking for pic of sheet as I sold bike other day and sheet went with but will get a email version if need be my point it they all wear different and need different tuning
     

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