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Help Suzuki GSF250V Electrical Problem

Discussion in 'Suzuki 250cc In-line 4's' started by Arsanda Ardianto, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    G'day

    I am new in this forum and it is my first time to post a thread in a forum, so my apologize some mistake is created. I understand few things mechanically and still need to learn a lot of stuff, especially with bike.

    I just bought 2000 Suzuki Bandit GSF250V. The bike cannot be started, however push start is an option to run the bike. So, I assume it is the starter motor knowing that the battery, relay, and solenoid were fine (tested using multimeter and the voltage were there).

    I bought a used starter motor and install it to the bike. The starter motor cannot crack the engine and I thought battery was discharged. I tried to jump start it with power pack, the starter motor seems struggling to make a rotation (weird noise from it). Then after trying to crank it for few seconds, I lost the lighting (headlight, brake light, and indicator light), horn, and the ability to start the bike (relay fuse is fine but no click present). However, the dash light still come on. Since then, I cannot push start my bike again and left frustrated with the problem.

    So far I have checked all the fuse including main one, battery. The fuses and battery seems okay. I also hear click from other relay (not sure what relay is that) when I turned on the ignition.

    Can anyone help with my problem, please?

    Thank you.
     
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  2. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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    So the bike runs and idles fine when push started?

    I would go thru all the wiring and connections to do with the battery , starter solenoid , starter ,regulator/rectifier , fuse holders , including earths .... look for cracked ,split, damaged wiring (especially if its shorting by touching metal) .... clean any open connectors with emery paper and check and clean connectors with Inox or contact cleaner or similar

    https://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?...-my-12-volt-battery-and-charging-system.1794/
     
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  3. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    Hi GreyImport,

    Thanks for your reply first off all.

    Bike runs and idle like normal when I push start it before. However, I cannot start it at all now (not even with push start). I will check all of those tonight when I get home and let you know what is the result.

    when you said test it, you meant run a multimeter in it and check for voltage reading across all the connection? or I need to do something else other than that?

    Will it be possible for fried wiring though? cause otherwise I need to open all the electrical wiring and find it.
     
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  4. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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    I would start by checking things first ... dont unravel the wiring loom , just look to see if theres anything obvious where its kinked or maybe rubbed thru the coverings ... definately clean and check all the connectors ... pull them apart and look for corrosion etc ... and where theres a connection like below (the flat one) , undo it and clean it up so its getting a 100% contact .... especially the battery terminals and solenoid contacts and starter contacts and the earths to the frame or engine .... make sure u take the negative battery terminal off first before u do anything though


    ... and yes a multimeter on the battery when motor is off , while trying to start it and when it eventually runs ... that link explains the procedure


    Custom700.jpg

    Heres some very ordinary starter solenoid terminals from an FZR

    IMGP0921 (Medium).JPG
     
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  5. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    I’d pull the Starter motor out and check that it spins freely when connected to a battery

    hook the negative side of the battery to the body of the starter and then hook the positive to the wire running off the starter motor , that will at least tell you if that starter is working.

    I recall a similar issue on an across when the starter was swapped out and the little gear that the starter connects to had
    Dropped, maybe pull the side cover off and make sure the gear is correctly installed that the starter slides into, bases I. What you said, sounds like Something is binding

    8DB58F25-FBD7-4F2C-AB42-66A6CC396258.jpeg
     
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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  6. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    Hi GreyImport and kiffsta,

    Thanks for your help guys, and greyimport, I did clean all the connection and I got my power back! (yeaay) I also did the battery and charging test, they were all fine like you mentioned in the link. I found out that the solenoid doesn't transfer same voltage from battery when it clicks (12.8 from battery side and only 11.6 from starter motor side of solenoid), then I tried to bypass the solenoid. It has big spark and starter motor still struggling (battery at 12.8V).

    I did the test before and it spins. I thought it is half working (not able to spin with loads) and I contacted the wreckers to do load test tomorrow. Other than that, I tried to pull apart my old starter motor, clean it up, and assemble it again. When I tested the old starter motor, it spins more aggressive than the new starter motor. So I put that old starter motor in the bike. It does spin the engine little bit, but still struggle to spin until it cranks with direct power from the battery.

    I tried to open the cover but it is very hard to open and does stick real well. I will try to do that on the weekend and let you know the progress of it. Any suggestion before I open it?

    Again, thank you guys. Your helps are much appreciated.
     
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  7. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Welcome to the forum,

    Sound's like the contact's inside the starter solenoid are dirty or arced/pitted if it's dropping that much voltage when cranking
    Usually there are 3 or 4 little tab's that hold the solenoid together, use a small flat screwdriver to open the bent tab's enough to be able to seperate the cover from the solenoid.
    Once open check the brass contact's for any corrosion or sign's of arcing out.
    Use some fine sandpaper or an old ignition point's file to clean them up again,
    once clean use some Dielectric grease on a contact's, reassemble and it should be good to go for a few more year's
     
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  8. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    Hi my67xr,

    Thanks for that info! I was going to get a new one to replace it, but I will definitely try what you just suggested. It is very rare to find one and the cheapest one I found out of wreckers is $45. So that will save me some money for it.
     
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  9. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    I did try opened the side cover and re adjust the gearing. I can turn it on with electric start now (yeaay). However, I only able to start the bike once, and not able to start for a second time. It sounds similar to where it was before (struggling starter motor to spin). What I found when I open the side cover is the gear behind starter clutch is loose.

    Then I opened it again for a second time to look. It goes back where it was before and need another adjustment and run again when I start it. I don't know whether something missing from that side cover gearing, but it seems like everything can be connected perfectly (other than wobbly gear behind starter clutch).
     
  10. Linkin

    Linkin The Apprentice Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    Take some photos and or videos if possible so we can better diagnose the problem.

    Starter gear systems can sometimes have a dowel or something to align at least one of the gears when the cover is on, when the cover is off it will often fall out or move
     
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  11. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    There should be a dowl that holds the starter gear in place in the engine cover
     
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  12. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    A1D4828F-0877-46BD-851C-2C379BD104DC.png Number 2 in the diagram
     
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  13. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    Hi All,

    The dowl was in place and everything seems fit perfectly. It seems like the starter motor has very big load to crank the engine. I attached a video when I tried to start the bike for a second time (first time works) after run around for 5 mins with the bike. The condition are:
    - Battery at 12.8V (tried to jump start with a car and seems to crank slightly longer)
    - Solenoid works fine (12.5V in Starter motor solenoid)
    - Cable from solenoid to starter motor was checked and deliver exact same voltage (check using battery)
    - Gearing move freely when I remove side cover and install it again (gear behind starter clutch little bit wobbly)

     
  14. Linkin

    Linkin The Apprentice Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    You seem to be losing a lot of juice from the battery when hitting the starter.
    Check what the battery is reading when you crank the engine. Anything under 10 volts or so indicates a bad or discharged battery, or something sucking a lot of juice. Perhaps try disconnecting the headlight.

    If you get the bike running, check that battery is being charged. You want at least 14 volts at say 4-6 thousand RPM, anything less and the charging system needs attention.

    I would also perform a voltage drop test with a multimeter on the starter circuit to see if you are losing voltage.

    Postive battery terminal to positive on starter solenoid and crank the engine
    Positive battery terminal to positive in starter motor and crank the engine

    Record your readings from your mulitmeter and post up your results.

    Since you have fitted a 2nd hand starter motor, my gut feeling is that it is the cause of your problem. If it is the case, starter motors can be refurbished but I'm not an expert on that sort of thing.
     
  15. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    Hi Linkin,

    The battery dropped to 5.4V when I cranked the engine.
    I lost the voltage between solenoid before. 12.8V to 12.4V from battery side of solenoid to starter motor side.

    I did another test with initial battery 12.3V (after all that effort to crank it). The result is starter side solenoid 11.83V and starter motor 11.81V.

    Ps. I did bypass the solenoid to get all the volt before, and it still cannot start the engine.
     
  16. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Battery is dead, time to replace it.
     
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  17. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    It does sounds like the battery is dead, but every time I remove the side cover and re-positioned the gearing it starts like normal. So before I buy a new battery, just want to make sure that it is the battery.

    Thanks
     
  18. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    If the battery drop's below 11v when cranking it's on it's way out and only has a fraction of its' original capacity
    Do you have a Battery World store near you ?
    If so take it there and they do a free check on it for you while you wait.
     
  19. risky

    risky risky

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    any auto leccy should be able to do an under load test. all they do is connect 2 leads and press a button.i have an old tester and if you were in newcastle would help out but perth is a bit far away. another quick test is turn headlight on and shine light on a wall at night and see how bright. then hit the horn button. stuffed battery and headlight fades away.rough but simple measure.any drop in the low elevens indicates trouble.
     
  20. Arsanda Ardianto

    Arsanda Ardianto Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks for you guys' suggestion.

    I tried to use my good car battery to start it, and it still struggling to start. The car battery was on 13V and down to 10.9V when cranking. Even with that, the engine still cannot be started. It does sound exactly like the video I was uploaded before.
     

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