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Project The Yamaha R4 (Glacially Slow Project)

Discussion in 'Other Projects - Other Bikes (non 250's)' started by maelstrom, Dec 20, 2014.

  1. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Wheel Bearings & Things
    I received some of my powder coating today, and a fine job the company did too. Had to post my bits to another city but it did not cost much. Anyway, while poking some new bearings in I thought to mention a few pointers.
    [​IMG]
    Here is my sprocket carrier after powder coating with texture black. Notice that there is no paint on the sprocket mounting face, the studs, or the bearing surfaces. I fitted a C3 tolerance bearing to this one as the old bearing was quite a tight fit in the housing.



    [​IMG]
    Disc Side First:
    Again no paint on disc mount, threads or bearing surfaces. Excellent.
    Now you want to put this bearing in first. This one is a standard tolerance because when I knocked them out I noticed that both of the wheel bearings were not that tight. If they were, I would have used a C3 again.
    Anyway you should fit this side first because the centre tube is unlikely to be exactly the same length as the distance between the bearing shoulders. Therefore, the location of the brake caliper is going to be affected by this bearing position.


    Then you fit your spacer tube. I have gone ever so slightly over the top and replaced my rusty steel one with titanium.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Now, you want to drive this bearing down until it is firm against the tube. You can push your axle in from the other side to keep the tube aligned with the bearings. You do not need to drive the bearing home onto its shoulder. As I said before you cannot expect the tube to be precisely the correct length. This highlights the need to understand what you are doing, not just assembling bits. Take the time to think about why something is designed the way it has been. Then you can avoid mistakes and do a good job.

    cheers
    Blair
     
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    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    . . . and of course the spacers for the sprocket side
    [​IMG]
    Here be the old rusty OEM things

    [​IMG]
    and the good stuff
    :)
     
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  3. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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  4. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Well the dream is to knock 30kg off the total weight, I think 20 should be reasonably easy, so all these grams count. Together with the rear brake caliper and bracket I think I can reduce the rear wheel by a kilo. I will probably fit a 150 tyre rather than the standard 160 and that will also help the diet.
     
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  5. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    To Err is Human
    I was thinking I could complete a 2nd part today, my suspension rocker arm, but of course it was not to be. I made the mistake of believing some online information about the rear suspension rocker arm bearings, ooops, so now I have two useless bearings, hence the empty bores that you see in the image. The ones that I have fitted are full complement as opposed to caged. It appears the OEM is an IKO TA1715Z (OEM 93317-21746), and I have fitted NTN HK1715 which are equivalent to IKO YT1715. Now full complement can withstand greater load with less rpm (see table below), but the downside is that there is not much room for the grease, so I would expect a shorter service interval. You should only use molybdenum disulfide grease for these low rotation, high load applications. Honda recommend Molykote BR-2 Plus, but I used a Japanese brand as getting the former is particularly difficult for me. I might see if I can find a secondhand one on eBay and do it up as a spare for a quick change service.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  6. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Picked up the full set of correct bearings today, removed the others and fitted the new ones. Have to get one new bearing sleeve for the front mount. I put the caged style bearing there so you can see the difference.
    [​IMG]
    And no, the seals are not deliberately green, they just came like that. I have bagged this one up and put it into the hope chest so my starter motor won't be lonely anymore. At least it is some sort of progress, and now I have some of the pieces so I can get some more work done on the frame, cut, weld etc.

    Note that I have put the correct bearing numbers here
    http://www.litetek.co/Guide_Suspension_Bearings.html If you want to add your model of bike to the table then please send what info you have to me by email or conversation.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  7. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    What kind of monster are you planning to build!?
    Sell it to me when your done? =p
     
  8. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Sorry, my 8 year old son has already told me that he wants it when I am old. :)
    cue old jokes . . .
     
  9. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    Tell him Damus says he's a lucky little man! I am sure he will look after it well!
     
  10. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Out With the Old & In With the New

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    I gained 274 grams, Jenny Craig will not be impressed.
    Have to do some mods to get everything to suit the Yamaha, but it is all under control.
    Amazing that the Z800, which is a serious bag of lard, only uses M10 shock bolts, but then I have noticed almost everything on the 3TJ1 is over engineered.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  11. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    In case you are wondering how to configure shock 'A' for bike 'B', you will need to make one of these. The nice man at Ohlins asked me for some information, so I did some measuring. When considering changing rate, the rocker arm is the variable of choice.
    [​IMG]
    You can either do lots of trigonometry or buy some software like Tony Foale's.
    cheers
    Blair
     
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  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Engine Stuff:
    Luckily for me my engine has been fastidiously maintained and by that I mean it has had the oil changed regularly, so much so that there is not the slightest sign of sludge inside the engine and no wear to speak of.
    The pistons have almost zero blowby and the same goes for wear.
    [​IMG]
    As you can see here it had been running rich but beyond that next to nothing.


    And after cleaning with some 3-Bond and a toothbrush. The wear on the skirt looks like nothing more than a polish.
    [​IMG]

    And all the bits, new rings, new circlips, and new gudgeon pins that have been DLC coated.
    [​IMG]

    Have to buy an oven now to bake my engine cases after painting with Cerakote so more delays.
     
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  13. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Yet another sidestep:
    I am changing the forks and brake for Yamaha R1 parts. I should have done more homework before buying the Ducati bits. Anyway, this will allow me to use an OEM part for the lower triple clamp and keep the original size front discs. So the Brembos and the Showa forks are for sale, if you hear of anyone who might want some. I will put them in the market here in the forum and on my website. I bought the calipers and bottom clamp, but still have to get some forks at the right price. The top clamp I will have to design and mill. Fortunately my local machine shop bloke just bought a 2nd hand Haas Machining Center, very nice. Time to freshen up on my G-Code. I would like to use a piece of magnesium for that but I don't know if he will like that idea because it can catch fire.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    To match the 400 trail, I used the triple clamp from the 2004-2006 model (5VY) and to keep the disc size and fork travel the same I used the forks from the 2002-2003 (5PW) model. A good example of how important good information is and why I made the USD fork web page http://litetek.co/Guide_USD_ForkDatabase.html
     
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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  14. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Messin About:
    Not much happening here, apart from a lot of family and life things, so poor old frozen project suffers. I made a new rear disc out of titanium with my jigsaw and a file. Yes, it took a while. This one is basically cosmetic because it will wear very quickly. I do plan to make some serviceable versions but that is a task for the future.

    The old:
    [​IMG]

    The New:
    [​IMG]




     
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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  15. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Jigsaw and a file?? That's some serious dedication haha!
    Epic weight saving though. Very impressive

    Sent from my HTC_0PJA10 using Tapatalk
     
  16. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Back to the Shock:
    After being modified to suit the Yamaha, you can see it is now 53 grams lighter than the genuine Yamaha shock. :)
    Most of that saving has to be coming from the lighter spring.
    The length, travel, spring, damping, top eye diameter and bump rubber were all changed. Ohlins were also kind enough to also supply a blue sticker so that it is more in line with its big brother, the R7. Well at least it is some progress. Mock assembly of the rear end is not that far away now.

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  17. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    A long time ago I bought a wrecked 1WG (early model FZR400) and started work on it. Part of that was the seat which will be used on my R4. It was originally an R7 part that I bought from Sebimoto in Europe. But I cut it into a million tiny pieces.

    [​IMG]

    Cut and keep cutting.

    [​IMG]


    and eventually you get something like this.
    A long way from finished of course, but it gives some idea of finished shape.
     
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  18. Clancy1

    Clancy1 Well-Known Member

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    Very cool, did you cut it and then hold it together with tape?
    Can't wait to see it finished!
     
  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    I use the tape for marking, cutting and as a backing for the joins when they are bonded together. I used small strips of thin wood screwed across the cuts to align the long sections. I would be happy just to see the frame with wheels. It will get there :)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  20. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Fortunately I used Grade 2. Grade 5 is obscenely hard and just destroys normal tools.
     

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