1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Project The YZF300SP (ghost project)

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by maelstrom, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Warning lots of offensive content, well as much as I can cram in.

    The Plan:

    Well here I go again. This one is off to a very slow start because I don't have the bike to start with, but you get that here in Thailand. The flip side is that I don't plan to do a lot to it, so once I get the donor bike it won't take an eternity like the others. The poor FZR is always ragged on, so of course, since I support the underdog, I just have to do it. Plus all the snooty MC22 owners give me more incentive. If I get it done before I am dead, I will line up a local on the new shitbox R3 so we can have a drag race. Now I know that I am offensive, but I am a grumpy, old bastard, and I think all new bikes look like ****, so take your tail tidy and your pointy bits of plastic and stick them where the sun doesn't shine. Now that we have the 'Rant of the Day' out of the way, let's start with the goal, which is based on this family of Yamahas.
    Family_01.jpg
    Family_02.jpg
    Family_03.jpg


    Bodywork:
    • Solo seat similar to YZF750SP
    • Headlights sourced from 4JH (already have those)
    • Fairing: Undecided, will merge 4JH upper with something.
    • Front guard to match forks
    • rear hugger
    Chassis:
    • Perhaps change forks to USD at a later date
    • Lighten parts
    • Fit Ohlins from late model Honda CBR250
    • Alloy subframe
    Engine:
    • Replace gearbox output bearing with custom double row ($$$$$$$$$$$)
    • Superfinish gearbox (they are hideous)
    • Work on big end issues
    • Fit oil cooler?
    • Attempt the 300cc conversion with 52mm bore
    • Try 28mm OKO's or 26mm OKO's or even simpler like 4 VM's
    • Bin the stupid water pump & fit electric.
    Exhaust:
    • Make one from Ti, if it doesn't pan out then bang up a stainless version.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    The 300cc Dream:
    All this can be blamed on @ruckusman. Plan is to go out to 52mm bore = 297cc. This should be finished, or canned, well before I expect to find a bike, since I already have a cylinder block and have started on it. Has to be at least 300cc anyway so we are on a level playing field with the new pile of Yamaha ****. R3 pffft, blasphemy, should call it XS300.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  3. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

    Messages:
    8,840
    Likes Received:
    6,599
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    I make bad bikes go to heaven
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    90 CBR250RR, 1973 Suzuki GT380 and a 1995 CBR900RR
    FD93EA10-79BA-4420-B991-EB568317A5C2.gif
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Cylinder Block Part 1:
    Got this on Jauce for 158 Yen then had to pay about 6000 yen to get it delivered,
    Block_01 small.jpg

    and took the sleeves out.
    Block_02 small.jpg
    I will send it off to be vapour blasted and then comes measuring and drawing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  5. gregt

    gregt Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hororata NZ
    My Bike:
    many and varied
    What pistons are you proposing to use ? Sleeves in close to correct size might be hard to source, I made mine from solid CI.
    I'd recommend making the top flanges thicker than needed as a finish cut over the top surface of the block is good practice.
     
  6. Tigger996

    Tigger996 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Totton, UK
    My Bike:
    Yamaha-Fzr250-3LN-EXUP 1989. Yamaha FZR400 road and Yamaha FZR400 race, Yamaha FZR400 with FZR600R engine, Ducati 998S & 996 & 900SS & ST4. Dresda Triton. Suzuki T500 road & T500 race. RS125 with Rotax 257 engine. and a couple of Ossa trials bikes in bits and a Sachs rolling chassis
  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    @Tigger996 What is your point?

    @gregt Well that is where things go into the twilight zone. I am going to try making a sleeve from a one piece Yamaha cylinder. All the details will be forthcoming in a few weeks when some more parts arrive. Yes, I will leave some extra height for a top cut.
     
  8. gregt

    gregt Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hororata NZ
    My Bike:
    many and varied
    Not quite twilight, lol. If you can source 52mm bore nicasil cylinders cheap enough to use as your liners, great stuff.
    But if that is it, be careful about how much you take off the top. I'm told nicasil doesn't like being cut across and can flake.

    I did consider it. If i'd made my liners from aluminium I could have had them nicasil'd locally at NZ Cylinders.
    The drawback is that for a one-off, the cost of the necessary mounting plate made to suit is about $NZ1000.
    Which would be about 2/3 the cost of the job.

    On the other hand, It's possible you've found 52mm bore cast iron cylinders. Again, if the price is good, why not.
     
  9. Tigger996

    Tigger996 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Totton, UK
    My Bike:
    Yamaha-Fzr250-3LN-EXUP 1989. Yamaha FZR400 road and Yamaha FZR400 race, Yamaha FZR400 with FZR600R engine, Ducati 998S & 996 & 900SS & ST4. Dresda Triton. Suzuki T500 road & T500 race. RS125 with Rotax 257 engine. and a couple of Ossa trials bikes in bits and a Sachs rolling chassis
    Just a different idea, as you said you don't yet have a rolling chassis.
     
  10. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    1,055
    Trophy Points:
    818
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    Well I'm going to go for 54mm for 316cc

    Now if I can only get those chaps at Dayton pistons to send me some data on their forged pistons, life would be simpler

    BTW - we both blame Project Binky
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    All this talk of big bore makes me want to go through with getting my xr650r custom plated with 'xr250'. Sounds like a fun project, but I'm years away from such a build!
     
  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    It's like that. I swore off engine mods a long time ago, but fitting alloy sleeves as wet liners is really going out on a limb, so it has to be done :) Worst case scenario is trashed engine.
    Hey, I found a donor bike. What a gem. Somehow I don't think I will be buying it.
    Pig.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  13. gregt

    gregt Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hororata NZ
    My Bike:
    many and varied
    I wouldn't think it's as big a risk as you might imagine. The iron ones in mine don't have much metal surrounding them so only have about .003in interference fit. Any tighter and I'd have stretched the block walls. It's run a little - and sat a lot - with water in it all the time. No water in the oil so far. Painted copper head gasket too.
    You'd use about the same interference but the benefit of alloy sleeves is that they'd expand more than my iron ones. Not so much more as to be dangerous - but it would help sealing under pressure.
    There's always high temp epoxy.....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Yes, all valid points. Because they are so thick, I am thinking to run the liners as slip fit, otherwise they will walk axially to the adjacent hole. This leaves me with three issues, cavitation, deck and fretting. At the moment I am thinking of o-rings or epoxy. When I have the block cleaned and some drawings done I will think about it some more. I am in my usual waiting mode at the moment.
     
  15. gregt

    gregt Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hororata NZ
    My Bike:
    many and varied
    Mine required flats on the adjacent top flanges. They won't rotate.
    As you probably know, in the experimental stages of the Royal Enfield 250 race single, they used slip-in chrome plated alloy liners to easily change the port timing. Slip-in at room temp, as soon as it was running they expanded to lock in place.
    The top flange should expand quite quickly to lock the head joint. Any O ring should only be there to seal when cold.
    It must have metal to metal contact under the flange when running or compression pressure will drop the liner.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Invited you to a "Conversation" @gregt . I have some rough drawings in there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  17. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    1,055
    Trophy Points:
    818
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    The bits you need are there...

    Price?
     
  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    No, it will be a hornet's nest of rubbish, lost parts and butchery. Better to pay the money to get a good one. Also it can never be registered.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 12:13 PM
  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 11:14 AM
  20. beano

    beano Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Ireland
    My Bike:
    FZR250r and YZF-R1
    Looking forward to this!!! :):)
     

Share This Page