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Yamaha FZR400R - Restore'n'Rebuild (IMAGE HEAVY)

Discussion in 'Other Projects - Other Bikes (non 250's)' started by MashtX, Nov 15, 2014.

  1. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Been mulling over ideas a lot recently and I think I have settled on my plan of attack for this old beast.

    I am pretty sure the pistons are well f*cked and after looking up the priced for FZR 400 pistons rings they can get stuffed! Jesus those things are expensive.

    So, overboring seems to be the way to go!

    59.00mm x 40.50mm = 442.90cc (+3mm bore = FZR600 pistons)

    Hmmm... FZR600 Pistons heeey? A lot easier to find and piston rings are much more affordable.

    I have done a bit more work on the heads, but that's for another post ;P

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    If you can make them fit and work correctly, why not?
     
  3. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Don't forget to recalculate your compression ratio. :)
    Lots of those conversions on the web. I think they use 600 cylinders though.
    Not much chance of being able to take a 3mm overbore and have a lot of sleeve left.
     
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  4. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Minor Update - I haven't had any real time to spend on the bike being back full time at Uni.
    Curse you Engineering!

    What has changed is the ATO kindly donated to the "Fix the FZR" fund, so I've ordered a gasket set and some new piston rings for SFA from China, I'm going to use these to do a test rebuild of the original engine and just hope to christ it won't totally fail. As one smart person said "If it's all ready F*cked, you're not going to f*ck it any more by pulling it apart and putting it back together again"

    If that fails, I will resign myself to ordering a 'new' engine from Japan and putting that in, but I think it will be fun to try and rebuild the one I have to start with.
     
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  5. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Kudos to you, Mech Eng? Anyone who can complete that path of torture deserves respect.
    We are both doing the same job. That will be fun. I have some Flex-Hones on order as well. I was considering putting YZF600 cylinders on mine after I saw pistons and cylinder for a great price on flea bay, that would make it a 490, but it would have turned into even more of a money pit.
     
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  6. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I am studying an.Advanced Diploma of Mechanical Engineering through RMIT, last semester now. Hence the lack of time haha.

    I'm about to borrow a hone from a mate and just use that for now
     
  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Ahh so we do not have to refer to you as Sir MashtX just yet. Have you considered doing the full degree after you finish?
     
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  8. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Going to apply for the Degree afterwards, but I'm going to defer it for a year or two if I can get a job in the field. Desperately in need of some more money and experience as well.

    My dream has always been to get the full degree, but I don't really have the financial means of supporting another 2.5 years at Uni without some more savings haha
     
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  9. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    That's great only 2.5 years to get the full degree. You are doing the right thing. Maybe you could keep the job and do part time.
     
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  10. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    That would be the ultimate goal if I could swing it, but I have to see what's available first!
    My No.1 priority is obviously to finish this course and graduate at the end of the year for now. So as much as I love spending lots of money and time on my bikes (And my poor long suffering car <3) these are all being sacrificed for now.
     
  11. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    This is so horrendously overdue for an update - which is coming soon™

    In the mean time, the long and short of it is as follows.

    Engine cylinders were disassembled, I left the cases intact as there was no issue there.
    All parts were THOROUGHLY cleaned.
    Cylinder Head Exhaust runners were polished + smoothed
    Cylinder Head Combustion Chambers polished
    Fully reassembled the engine with new gaskets and piston rings
    Re-mounted the Engine and attempted first starts.

    And here in lies my fun times.

    Engine started, beauty!
    Appears to be running on 3! Fck.

    So onto the problem solving.
    Basic Compression test (hand only, don't have a correct plug for my gauge) came back plenty fine.
    Spark Test was great, I get a beautiful big blue arc on the plug.
    Which left fuelling.

    Now, I have rebuild these carburettors so many times now its getting silly.

    But, pulled them apart again and went through and ultrasonically cleaned each individual carb body/jet/piece to make sure there were as clean as I could have them.

    I all ready have a Litetek Viton kit fitted, so I went through all the jets and triple checked them, two air jets appeared blocked so after some tedious fiddling I got them clean again and reassembled.
    Carbs back onto the bike and nope, no improvement.

    Back to the disassembly.
    I replaced the Emulsion tubes with the proper Factory Pro ones and got a set of the thumb air screws as well for good measure.

    Again, no change to the issue, but I thought I would play with the air screw settings to see if I could get some life out of them and nope. Either fully in or out made no difference to the way it was performing, well it raised the idle speed a bit but checking the exhaust temperatures showed that it still wasn't firing on the cylinder.

    Thus I am now totally stuck, my OCD has dictated that I order a full new set of replacement jets for everything if for no other reason than the old ones are all slogged out on the top and look gross.

    Anyone have suggestions? These Mikuni CV carbs are quite literally going to be the death of me at this rate.
     
  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Something rotten in Denmark there. If there was some part of the carb that was faulty it should still fire at some rpm. So let's consider the options.
    1. Lack of compression
    2. lack of spark
    3. lack of fuel
    Now one and two you are certain are ok, so if we focus on the carb the first thing to know is that there is fuel in the bowl.
    If there is then pop the air cleaner off, start the engine and using a spray mist bottle, spray some fuel into the carb throat. The cylinder has to fire.
    Then let us know what happens.
    cheers
    Blair
     
  13. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    That was what I did yesterday actually, sprayed SYB down that cylinder and got the cylinder up to a reasonable temperature (about 150ish) compared to mid 200's on the other 3
     
  14. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Ok, and the float bowl is full?
     
  15. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not sure about full but when I've opened them up there was plenty of fuel in it.

    I'm not sure on exactly how to check the exact levels accurately however
     
  16. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Is the slide lifting the same as the other cylinders?
    Can you use gasoline for the spray into the intake rather than SYB? Ether based starting fluids should not be used for a prolonged period as they may lead to pre-ignition (as I recall).
     
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  17. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    I could easily load up a spray bottle with some petrol, I'm not going to get a chance to fiddle with it until the weekend.

    Slides move freely and flutter well under throttle
     
  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    The slide from the cylinder that is not firing (which is it?) was also lifting?
    When you say you tested the compression manually, what does that mean, and what values did you obtain for each cylinder?
     
  19. MashtX

    MashtX Well-Known Member

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    Cylinder 3 is the cylinder that is having its lovely issue and yeah all the slides move perfectly well annoyingly enough

    So I don't have an attachment for my compression that fits my spark plug hole, so I don't have a recorded value.

    What I did do, was crank the engine and use my hand to feel the vacuum before I fitted it up and again with the engine running, put my hand over the carburettor and it really was quite strong.
    So yeah I know it's not even close to scientific or accurate but I feel its a strong enough result to get SOMETHING out of that cylinder, not the result I am getting which is complete failure of ignition.

    [​IMG]

    So that is a plug comparison of Cylinder 4 (left) and Cylinder 3 (right) after killing the engine from 6k in neutral
     
  20. Linkin

    Linkin The Apprentice Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    Have you checked spark on that coil lead? Take it off the plug and put another plug on it, earth it to engine. Crank the bike. If there's no spark, you have an issue with the spark plug cap, lead, or coil. Start from the bottom and work upwards when it comes to replacing parts.

    Spark leads are semiconductors... meaning you have to reach a certain voltage before the magic electron juice will flow. 20,000 to 60,000 volts on most cars, from older to newer. Unsure on bikes.

    The spark plug cap might be broken internally... the lead might be broken internally... or the coil may have died.

    Troubleshooting:

    Swap cyl 3 lead with cyl 1 lead and see if the miss moves (check the exhaust header temperature). If it does - problem with spark plug cap, coil lead or the coil. If the miss does not move - issue with the cylinder or the spark plug. Swap or replace the plug. If that fails and the exhaust header for that cylinder is cold, it's time for a compression test and then leakdown test.
     

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