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ZXR 250 A not revving out ?

Discussion in 'Kawasaki 250cc In-line 4's' started by Minimata, May 19, 2014.

  1. Abel

    Abel Abel

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    Unless you know it is knacked or you have moon and back mileage I'd get some advice on how to set the manual tensioner before you look at changing the chain. Else a new auto tensioner. May save you a lot of agro if this sorts it.
    Excuse the "get some advice" if you're an ex-honda motogp mechanic! Only listen to the mechanic at your local bike shop if he's actually done it before. A lot nowadays are only really competant at servicing, fitters rather than engine builders, and these 250's are unusual in the UK of course.
    Someone on here must have done it.
     
  2. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    I do hope that someone can advise on methods. Certainly can't find anyone in UK currently .

    Mileage on what I am happy are original clocks is 44000 km (27000 miles).

    CCT is a Krieger unit that I am very pleased with. You can gently tension it up on tickover until the loading just starts to effect tickover. Then you take it back a smidge and that should do you......... Can also do it with stopped engine at TDC. I can't get over how weenie the chain is!

    Min
     
  3. zixxer

    zixxer Well-Known Member

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    mate i would stick with an auto tensioner, the ones from a gpx fit ( either that or zzr can never remember which one), just grease it alittle and replace it every 10k or so. i would be too scared i would over tension it.

    might have a chat with my mechanic who has done plenty of cam chains on zx2's (always has atleast one at his shop whenever i go, most i saw was 4 of them), but you would certainly want an endless chain at 19k rpm.

    mine has some scratching on the rocker cover aswell from the previous owner.
     
  4. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    Thanks Zixxer,

    I can see the direction things may take now. I forsee an autumn with the engine on the bench having a new cam chain, not to mention new exhaust manifold studs, valve adjustment etc..

    Any tips your mechanic has on doing the cam chain would be appreciated .
     
  5. zixxer

    zixxer Well-Known Member

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    he didnt have many kind words, he used the c bomb afew times.

    easiest to remove engine for the best access (not necessary though), remove cams (also cct) and rhs engine cover and remove a timing gear ( guessing the gear off the crank), feed chain down make sure nothing has moved and reassemble from there.

    i think once you open it all up and have a look at whats going on it should make more sense as to what you have to do, but it is a big job and important its all at tdc and stays that way. He also said he has seen the breakable chains used in other bikes but 20k rpm is another story and to just use an endless chain.

    just check timing and take some pictures or mark the cams with a permanent marker in 100 spots and make sure its all good and not too much can go wrong.
     
  6. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    From memory the ZXr250 cannot have a non breakable cam chain fitted without splitting the cases, one member said his mechanic did some minor adjustments to his crank cases to have off some excess cast steel ground away to make allowances for a fixed cam chain to be fitted in the future. I have used breakable chians in the past, the key is to ensure you knock over the ends of the pin so it cant come out. As for tips, please be aware the inlet and exhaust cams are different, if you donwload the manual, step are listed in there.

    As stated by AJverma, the Cam Chain tensioner on the ZR250 is a match, considor checking the spring and tensioner while the cam chain is being done. If you are doing the breakable chain with a pin, you wont have to pull the engine out, it can easily be done with the engine in the frame.

    Chris
     
  7. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    A breakable chain should be as good as the endless type (after all the endless one has just been joined on the bench before fitting to engine) if done properly. I would use the breakable type and get someone who knows how to help you join it. Save your self a lot of time and work.
     
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  8. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    May have uncorked the Zxr some more.

    It went like stink this evening having dialled out the air mix screw in view of non standard race can and pipe and hi flo air box arrangement + 132 main jets

    So what have I taken it from...........we'll it was rideable at 1.5 turns out and now it's at 3.25 turns. It pulls much better from 6-10k then takes off! Although I haven't gone beyond 14k as everything got a bit blurry!

    If it isn't reaching 18k when I run it some more I will dial it out a smidge more, maybe to 4.

    Definitely fuelling at the route of this one.

    The other thing I have found now is that on start up the choke sits more stably wherever you have the revs set when warming up rather than all or nothing as before.

    The more I fettle with this bike the more I learn about how capable it is.

    Maybe I won't want to sell it at tend of the season...........who needs a Triumph Street Triple anyway.........
     
  9. Mclaren

    Mclaren Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    My old boy got a street triple he selling
     
  10. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    Just read an interesting article on weeks motorcycling site. It suggests non stock air filter requires jet up 5 sizes on main and if slip on race can too you could go 10 sizes up. So I am looking out for some mains around 138 I guess.....?

    What's the worst that could happen anyway ? Blow the engine? Excuse for a new bike............

    Min
     
  11. Abel

    Abel Abel

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    If you have the jets then go ahead - no one ever blew an engine up by it being too rich. The worst you'll do is make it fluffy and slow.
    You should be more worried about it running lean. I say this a a man who's FZR 250 air box houses a nissan micra air filter and after the EXUP there's some random Japan race exhaust.
    Oh, and because I was scared to take the carbs apart it's running standard jetting. Having said that it does run a bit hot sometimes! Eek, what am I doing?
     
  12. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    Cheers Abel.

    Strangely it was previously a bit slow off the mark and definately fluffy. It now pulls much stronger with air mix setting so I must have introduced more air into what was a rich fuel setting perhaps.........

    I guess if a further re-jet takes place which will take it from what was originally stock 128 now a 132 and then a 138 could be a jet too far that's all.

    The other aspect to this would of course be that if it is full throttle that is limited then widening main jet should help this end of the rev range.

    I am not going to mess with the needles unless there is a good adjustable alternative to the stock one out there that is cheaper than messing with jets?

    Hell its only £20 on jets to find out....... and it could launch the bike into orbit!!

    Only one way to find out now..............
     
  13. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    OK I am up for doing the breakable chain thing. Does this require me to connect onto existing chain and wind through on cams and crank ? or can it be fed some other way keeping all cams and crank stationary? this is a big consideration for me as an experienced amateur mechanic :) lol
     
  14. Willrcr15

    Willrcr15 Well-Known Member

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    The only time to muck around with jetting & needles is when its chained to a Dyno.
    You'll most likely decrease the power & performance doing it by ear at home.
    There are shops that will do it for less than you might think.
     
  15. zixxer

    zixxer Well-Known Member

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    definetly don't want anything to move once it is at tdc, maybe check out some youtube video's so you have an idea of what to do.
     
  16. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    Zxr update....

    Just worked out what fuel economy I have been getting prior to new carb settings.

    14km/litre or 38miles per gallon.

    What is typical for this bike ?
     
  17. Th3_Huntsman

    Th3_Huntsman Senior Member Contributing Member

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    I am averaging 18.1km per litre
     
  18. cal

    cal Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    nice balius manifold you got there ;) i scored one of those myself last year - i found it was a little more restrictive over the stock zxr250 manifold but yielded a really crisp exhaust note!
     
  19. Minimata

    Minimata Active Member

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    Cheers guys!

    I thought 14km/l was a bit low so I could have been running rich before winding out the air screw to presumably let more air into the mix. Will monitor what sort of fuel usage I get now.

    I didn't realise these pipes are off a Balius - should always have stainless pipes imho. I chopped off the orginal muffler which was a brute of a thing and put the carbon slip on in its place losing some weight too. I found taking out the baffle on the carbon can a bit extreme on noise front - still sounds wicked with it!!
     
  20. cal

    cal Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    ok, 14L/km is DOUBLE of what a healthy zxr250 chews. mine now runs slightly rich on standard jets at roughly 7.0L/100km. advice is to sandblast the stock exhaust manifold, give it some love with ceramic paint, then use a stock pipe as its loud enough. Our "A" models were built before emission standards after all and are not so restricted when airflow is considered..... the stroke is a mere 39 odd mills and the piston diameter is the size of a babies fist. i highly recommend that you

    A: take the carbs out, take the bowls out, slam some pressurized air through the main jests (while they are out of the carbs), check the fuel tank for internal rust.

    B: BALANCE the floats.... we have the resources here to show you. make sure the diaphragms have no holes and the needle is in one piece while you are at it, CV carbs are nice and simple.

    C: do you have all the seals? I.e; carb to engine (are they hard and cracked?) carby to airbox, (are they all there?) vacuum hoses? (check that the two center cylinders share one hose and the two out cylinders share separate hoses that join. - "A" model only

    D: check the Spark plugs too... along with the caps. individually check the plugs against the engine block... RED spark = bad... BLUE = a nice healthy spark.

    E: now that you have the bike clean and the above is complete, lets TUNE the carbies...
    it may be more cost effective to use a local mechanic.... some can do this job very, very well.
    IF you are willing to wait, you can order a $20 pilot screw adjusting tool, and TWO vacuum gauges from trade tools under $100. this way you can not only make the bike start easier, but also make it idle more stably/ consistently/ decline from revvs smoothly and give you a far better riding experience.

    PS: please note that you only need the two vac gauges as the bike ZxR250 has a two piston up, two piston down config.


    Chris, please correct me on any misleading info.
     
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