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Project '98 Suzuki Across

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Laceysnr, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Linkin

    Linkin The Apprentice Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    That is usually the temp sesor, it's only one wire as its' grounded through the thermomostat housing.

    I'm pretty certain the blue/black 2 pin is the radiator fan plug. It could also be for the fuel pump, if the across is fitted with one
     
  2. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    There is two sensors in thermostat housing, one is that single wire your talking about, temp gauge, the other is a two pin which is direct power temp sensor for thermo fan, all single bullet connectors.

    There is a fuel pump, but its in the rear left cowl along with the relay there.
     
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  3. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    I was about to swap two of my leads but then double checked the service manual, it says 1 & 4 for the left, 2 & 3 for the right!

    Had a bikefire loud enough to piss off the neighbours just now so probably should stop for tonight, but I did grab a quick video of it cranking in case the sound is enough for somebody to diagnose... hopefully you're not about to tell me I'm killing the engine. It's got more base than my phone is picking up. I've got no reason to believe the timing would be off because I was told it was running well when it was last used, it just wasn't prepped for storage hence all the cleaning etc.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/D9J1EkUq4GUg91QC7

    I can't embed from Google and the video isn't finished processing there for me to download it and put it elsewhere annoyingly.
     
  4. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    It was one or the other, i had another engine that was 1&3/2&4(it was a twin coil but with 2 different trigger inputs) i keep remembering that. Across is def 1&4/2&3.
    Where was the backfire from, exhaust or intake ???

    Cranking sounded fine, but put the airbox back on, you'd be surprised how much difference it makes especially on the across carbs.
     
  5. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    Ok, will give that a whirl. For anyone else watching that first quick crank is with the ignition off just for comparison!
     
  6. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    Also im not hearing any fuel pump prime or running when your cranking. symptom ???

    Sometimes with no airbox, it can help to put your hand over the carb face to get it to start, but there is some risk (have seen backfires light the fuel in the carbs). Could also point out other symptoms.
     
  7. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    Ah I'd already let it run the fuel before the video started. That's definitely working, and to make sure I wasn't getting complete **** I may have run some out from the carb bowls, and then deposited it on my back path and maybe tested to see if it burned.

    Please feel free to point out any and all symptoms, I could be missing something dumb!

    Now I know why you guys have said put that on first. Wow.

    Sounded a bit better with the airbox on, but it still didn't catch. That said, I didn't get to try for long before the battery was drained again, so next crack will be tomorrow.
     
  8. kiffsta

    kiffsta Administrator Staff Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    I am almost 100% sure that connector doesn’t get used , so ignore it for the moment.

    Did you adjust / remove the air fuel mix screws when you cleaned the carbs ? If so , what have you set them at ?

    The vid sounds like it is almost there , can I suggest you pull your plugs and post a pic , you mentioned you tried starting fluid , that stuff can blacken your plugs. My advice is to check your plugs , check your slow jets to be 100% sure you can see a pin ***** of light through each one, refit your airbox then put the choke on full and engage the starter. If it doesn’t start , then use a compression gauge to check the compression of each cylinder with the carbs off.
     
  9. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    The pilot screw? Didn't touch those but maybe I should wind them in and ensure they're at the stock setting? I only pulled the main and pilot jets, tried to remove one of the starter jets (? the ones in the carb inlets?) but had zero confidence in it coming out and not rounding off.

    I've pulled two of the plugs and they were a tad wet but still clean. Hopefully can borrow a compression tester from my mate tomorrow.
     
  10. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    My comp tester is meant to work on small engines, but for some reason it doesn't work on my across, exact same readings on 2 different across motors. No matter what i just get low psi readings, yet engine is rebuild with oem rings and the valves and all seat really well. And the performance indicates the engine is healthy. I've got a 12 tooth on the front and have no issues still getting up to 150 on it.

    I'd still go for airbox first, and see how it goes. It can make a huge difference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 12:18 AM
  11. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    If your plugs are wet it won’t fire.
    Plugs can also be finicky things. I have had them where they were so wet they dropped and could never get them to fire and others that would fire under water.
    Air cleaner on, mixture screws set at factory settings initially, choke on and see how it goes.
    You may also need to check your fuel heights in the bowls especially if you have changed the valve and filter.


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  12. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    Made some progress! Airbox is on, pulled all the plugs and dried them off, and wound the mix screws all the way in and then back out 1 1/2 turns. This is the result:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/WCqyUZzd5Ut7omCZ6

    So she's firing, albeit briefly. Managed this quie a few times before the battery gave out again. It'd fire, die, then take quite a bit of cranking before having a break and firing again.

    So what's the next best step here? My amateur guess says it's likely to be fuelling given the way it peters out, might need to adjust the floats? Have got a compression tester to take home tonight for good measure.
     
  13. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    The float thing is more or less long as it has fuel and isnt stuck closed it should run.
    It does sound like its not getting the fuel tho. I wouldn't be surprised if your pilots are blocked again.
    You may have cleaned the tank and got the rust out, but the pump would have rust built in it that would be going in until its cleared. Double check the pump is running also
     
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  14. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Could also be battery related.
    I found similar issues on my old Across and cured it initially by hooking up a big battery boosted used for jump starting cars.
    Discharging and charging your battery will kill it quickly.
    Surprising how well they run with a faster spin on the starter from a big battery.

    Make sure it is the correct battery too. The Across has a high Cold Cranking amp requirement.


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  15. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    ^^^^ is also true
     
  16. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    The battery is new though because of the bike it's already gone through a few full cycles... so it might be hurting a little.

    It's from here: https://www.mcas.com.au/shop/item/oyek-batteries-29, got the YTX7A-BS which is what was listed in the user manual. I do have a spare car battery lying around and was wondering about getting some jump leads to use that instead. Hopefully on a fresh full charge tonight it'll fire and run and then the battery torment can stop!

    Before I spin it tonight I'm going to get the carbs off again and double check everything again, and probably give some passages a blast with the air compressor.
     
  17. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    To be honest, I would put some jumper leads into it from the car battery anyway.
    Still have your battery in and connected. That way it eliminated any large current draw on your battery.

    Did you bench synch the carbies? Might pay to double check them while you have them off as if they are not close it can also cause a few issues. You can fine tune the synch when you get it running.

    Make sure the pumps fills the carbies, check it by opening up the bowl bleeders and draining them till the pump starts and stops.
    Make sure you have the fast idle screw wound almost all the way out. If the throttle is open to much it will flood easily.
    Choke out and no throttle till it fires and runs by itself, then I few gentle blips till it settles.
    Everything else being equal it should start.


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  18. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    Any tips on doing that? I'll look up some guides but it's not something I've done before. Once it's running I was planning to build a sync tool from an Arduino and some pressure sensors, I like electronics projects!

    Yeah the pump is doing a good job. I drained the bowls yesterday and it ran for a while filling them back up. Also I was winding the idle screw out without really looking, and actually wound it off so I need to reattach that later too.
     
  19. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Reattach it while you have the carbies off.
    That guide on the Across Carbies has all you need to know on bench synching them but basically take a very small drill and ensure the gap under the piston is as close as you can get to being the same on both.


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  20. Laceysnr

    Laceysnr Member Premium Member

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    Well with a conference call from 9pm til 10pm and a call after that for 30 mins I still managed to get the carbies off again, checked over, and cleared out with the air compressor. One pilot jet was sitting in the fuel bowl so I must have failed to do that up properly the first time around :oops:

    Got it all back on after the calls, with the airbox and made sure everything was tight. Replaced the fuel hoses for good measure and hooked up the spare car battery with jumper leads. Fired her with the screw driver and she did the same as before, so wound out the mix screws another half turn and she ran for about 5 seconds. Wound them out another half and lo and behold she ran for the first time in years.

    Just got her outside over lunch and let her run for a while, definitely a fair bit of tuning (and therefore learning!) to do:

    • Dies completely if I back off the choke all the way, even after running for 5 mins. However fully engaging it when warm was clearly overkill as the revs went up to around 4500
    • Revs are a little slow to build when opening the throttle, but maybe that's just because I'm twisting them at the carbs and it doesn't progress the same way as the grip (not connected that end atm)?
    • Revs hang a bit when letting off the throttle, drop quite quickly to around 3-4k then slower down from there. Have sprayed a bit of a starter around and haven't found an obvious leak
    • Smoking a lot. Initially this was quite blue which wasn't surprising given I dropped a small amount of oil into the cylinder heads a couple of weeks back to help unsticky anything that might be stuck when I turned it over manually. Once warm it was more of a dark grey, but did back off after a while. Exhaust is spitting a fair bit of fluid from a drain hole, reckon it's all just 5 year's worth of dust and crud getting burned out
    • Temperature gauge is apparently not working. Haven't done any investigations there yet but something to look at in case the coolant circuit isn't being opened when it should
    • Seems like a fair bit of noise from around the head, but not sure if that's just because I've never had my head so close to an unobstructed head on a bike. No crazy loud tapping or anything, just a bit of "stuff is moving in here" noise in general
    My clothes stink now, but I couldn't care less :D

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/4zXP8xCnMV8ySV5G7

    I'm guessing the first step in resolving all of this is to get the carbs balanced now?
     
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