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Help Across Alternator?

Discussion in 'Suzuki 250cc In-line 4's' started by sarahb, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    Hello Again Friendly Forum Folk

    I wrote a post last week about my bike not starting after I dropped it.

    Well fully charging the battery got it started for a couple of days..

    But it appears the battery isn't holding it's charge if I don't ride it for a couple of days.

    This had happened a few times before the bike dropping, so unrelated to the previous topic , I think

    Had the battery tested in the shop and it said the battery was ok.

    Does this point to the alternator?

    You guys have been so useful to now, I'm turning to you once again for any advice you could give.

    And thanks again


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  2. Mclaren

    Mclaren Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Yer sounds like it test it at plug with multimeter
     
  3. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Or rectifier.
     
  4. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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  5. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks grey import, but if it's the alternator wouldn't it not charge at all? Maybe when I said "hold the charge" it was the wrong use of words.


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  6. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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    Those tests I linked to will tell u wats happening ..... buy a multimeter , they are cheap

    Alternator itself would be my last choice ..... simple things first ..... if the system is charging while the bike is running but the battery keeps dieing then u need a new battery.
    If the system is not charging correctly then first thing is to look at all the plugs/connectors and wiring associated with the charging system for corrosion, damage etc.
    Then I would check out the RR (regulator/rectifier) .... firstly to see if its clean and grounded correctly..... then test it

    Across RR.jpg Across gen.jpg
     
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  7. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    Hi Sarah,

    Just something I have noticed with my across if you turn the key ALLL the way past the steering lock selection to the "P" accidently that's parking. The parking selection on the ignition actually turns on the head light very dim and you wouldn't be able to see it during the day.
    Charge the battery and when your parking/not using the bike go to OFF on the ignition selection instead and see if it holds charge.

    If your bike charges from use, the stator & reg/rec doing its job. In other words those things provide battery not drain it lol.

    The drain from what i can think off would probably be a light, you could also try disconnecting the "helmet storage area" light as it might be the cause of the drain also.
     
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  8. Damus

    Damus She is a BEAST and riding it is comparable to sex Dirty Wheel Club

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    I might also quickly point out the difference between a stator and an alternator (for the sake of using correct terminology because learning is FUN!!!).

    "The biggest difference in a stator and an alternator is the stator (if equiped) outputs AC voltage to a rectifier and sometimes regulator. However an alternator has the rectifier built in and outputs DC voltage and is rated at much higher amperage."

    In your case, you have a stator and an external reg/rec unit.
    So if you want to sound cool when someones like "oh your battery is draining? maybe its the alternator, yeah that sounds like it has something to do with electricity. That must be it" you can be like "Well actually my good friend, my bike is equipped with a stator not an alternator and I said my battery drains over a long period of time while my bike is off, not the battery isnt recharging at all when being used". And trust me you would know if the reg/rec (more common to fail than the stator) has failed because you would ride for 30-40 mins turn the bike off and the battery would be completely dead.
     
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  9. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again so much.

    Just a little update.

    Tested the (fully charged) battery free standing and with bike running (5,000 revs) and the output is the same so this is pointing to the charging system.... next step will be getting to the stator and three wires to test them.

    anyone familiar with this

    http://www.theflyingbanana.com/electrical.htm

    basically he's talking about how most suzuki gsx's will at some point have problems with the stator/reg/rectifier due to them having a 2 phase alternator rather than the traditional 3 phases

    "if you look at the original wiring diagram of just about every GS/GSX Suzuki, you will see that two of the wires coming from the alternator enter the regulator/ rectifier unit. But the third wire — representing one of the phases — heads off to the headlight switch on the right handlebar switchgear, and then back to the regulator rectifier. So, the third phase was only delivered to the reg./rect. when the headlights were switched on...
    Well it was all OK in theory, I suppose, but it had an unfortunate side-effect. Ask yourself this: What happens to the juice of the third phase, when it can't go anywhere? The answer is, it generates heat — enough heat to start cooking the windings, so that after a few years you notice that your charging system is struggling to deliver enough juice to your over-taxed battery."


    he then goes on to explain how to fix this problem from recurring


    Where the offending wire heads off up the wiring loom from adjacent to the reg./rect. and onwards to the right handlebar switchgear, there is a bullet-style connector. And likewise where it returns back along the loom and exits near the reg./rect., there is another bullet-style connector. Simply pop apart each connector, and plug the third phase coming from the alternator into the wire that goes straight into the reg./rect. unit — and voila, you have it sorted


    Good advice ?
     
  10. Pygmygod

    Pygmygod Well-Known Member

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    The part where he says "when it can't go anywhere" would only apply if your bike can leave the lights permanently off by not completing the circuit by turning the lights on?
    Aren't the lights always on when you turn the bike on though? Or is that only in later models where it became compulsory?
     
  11. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    They're always on when I turn the bike on

    side note - I think the light inside the helmet storage area is a bit OTT TBH :)
     
  12. Joker

    Joker If you want me find Club250 on facebook. Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Whoa, baby steps, baby steps.

    http://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/howto-testing-a-motorcycle-stator.2052/

    It's most likely your regulator rectifier. This converts AC current generated by the stator to DC current which charges the battery. If you are not getting an increase in voltage with the bike running, it's not charging so start with testing your reg/rec. Here's it very clearly explained:



    As has been said, next step would be your stator, details above.

    If your battery is definitely fine and you've got no shorts anywhere pretty confident it's one of those two. I wouldn't be trying to over complicate it with people's opinions on phases. I've only ever seen 3 phase or single phase generators in modern times, I highly doubt the alternator would be 2 phase. It's complicated for me to explain the engineering but don't worry about it. Just do the testing and I'm sure you'll pinpoint it very easily without worrying about how electrical currents work.

    No.
     
  13. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Stu. Will get onto it


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  14. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    So, i went to ride into town this morning and a thin wisp of smoke started coming out from the front, behind the dash.. and a burning smell...

    took off the front visor and couldn't find any signs of burning wires etc. started the engine and there was no smoke this time ( maybe us moving the wires and giving everything a bit more space and air) but my friend that was there was saying the smell was a burning component smell rather than a burning wire smell.. and then i saw that the smell was coming from the area of the regulator/rectifier.. and touched it and it was super hot from a minute of idling (with choke)
     
  15. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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  16. Joker

    Joker If you want me find Club250 on facebook. Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Yeh it sounds buggered to me...
     
  17. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    new one on order..
     
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  18. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    that first one for $40 on ebay looks just like the fried one i took out! wonder how much i could get for it ;)
     
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  19. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Big Cheese Contributing Member

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    @sarahb Where did u order it from and how much was it?
     
  20. sarahb

    sarahb Well-Known Member

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    well, i'm not so proud of the answer.. i'm usually the first to pay the least and get a bargain on ebay...

    i had seen the $40 one on ebay previously but it looks dodgy... the $45 one looks better..

    i found one in the states that was USD$100 brand new but $40 postage and would take 2 weeks

    anyway, i let the guy at the local bike shop order it in for me.. $175 brand new, includes courier cost should be here monday latest tuesday

    i'm half considering calling him in the morning to see if i can change my mind

    thoughts?
     

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