1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Project beefsalads MC22 rebuild

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by thebeefsalad, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
  2. Gen

    Gen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    50 K's from South Australia, in NSW
    My Bike:
    blown CBR250r
    All is not as it seems
    custom 2.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    • Like Like x 1
  4. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    Checked the crank/conrod clearances on the overheated motor. all conrod clearances are beyond spec. crank bearings are within spec but 1 has a taper to it (shows .038 on one side, .025 on the other). Plastigage happened to fall in one of the weird wear patterns so I'm assuming that wear was due to overheating? Screw it! Going to have the crank measured to make sure it's still within spec, and order all new shells. If the conrod doesn't check out, FML but I'll add those to the order as well.

    Just did a small bit of research on possible wrist pin replacements. klx110 pins are 13mm, but far too long. Cheap enough to have cut down to size but I'm convinced something out there will fit without modification, just have to figure out which ones they are. https://4-stroke.net/library/honda-piston-size-chart shows a whopping 3 48mm pistons, and 1 49mm have a 13mm pin, but the weebr falls in between? *SIGH* In my research I found that g-force racing shortened wrist pins in one project so I'm wondering how short I can get away with if I can't find one the correct length.
     
  5. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    Wiseco have a big catalogue with wrist pins in there also, as you've noted not much in that 48mm-49mm size range in 4 strokes, different story in 2 strokes however - someone else may be ale to chime in and say whether or not there's going to be a material difference between the two types

    There are however 4 strokes in that bore range ~50mm, with 13mm wrist pins, in the Asian market - I suggest this site for research
    www.hispeedpiston.com - you can navigate the menus which are in Thai by looking at the status bar, which in this instance is on the bottom left in this screenshot

    There is also some information to be gleaned from this site
    https://www.daytonaindonesia.com/product-subcategory/piston/cast-piston/101
    as to potential candidates in respect of 13mm diameter piston pins, downside is that they do not respond to contact for information and from what I can gather only dealer in Indonesia stock their products - but it's info

    I also just noted that the Honda CR85 is 47.5mm bore - two stroke

    Do you have the actual part number to cross reference?

    Screen Shot 2021-05-23 at 8.50.47 am.png
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    13111-KT7-750 wasn't used on many other models according to CMSNL
     
  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  8. Gen

    Gen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    50 K's from South Australia, in NSW
    My Bike:
    blown CBR250r
    I will read the reply explanation to you then eh Maelstrom?
    Chinese pistons,purchased from China, came in OEM "looking" box, with a non existent part number suffix (020)
    But I guess you knew that ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    Mike Norman of G-Force Tuning has a thread on here where he did work on an MC22 for Dave Moss - they used the Chinese pistons in the rebuild, reported no problems with them, although they did make mention of the square cut slits for the wrist pins retaining clips, I don't recall what they thought of the wrist pins themselves though

    There is also a very good photo gallery linked from within that thread of all of the work

    EDIT

    Here it is
    https://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/dave-moss-cbr250rr-mc22-racing-in-california.8371/

    Here's the link to the photo gallery
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x1m7hzedjmceysg/AACtUSSb5MLZDe8Hbr3DoJFQa?dl=0

    It's still there, with permission we should probably download them to the resources section
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  10. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Well thanks Gen, but I only discovered what was going on with these Chinese pistons (the 'special' part numbers confused my brain) after going for a search this morning. I'm having a slow day, too hot here.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  11. Gen

    Gen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    50 K's from South Australia, in NSW
    My Bike:
    blown CBR250r
    That's life,,,Iv'e had a few years to heal & grow a few more (One?) braincell(s) since the blown 250 days, I found the Chinese pistons ok, but never was brave enough to try their pins :Drool:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    I've spent the bulk of my day digging through the manual and pulling specs for inspection. Supplements are driving me nucking futs! I need to sit down and figure out how to swap the supplements into the correct chapters in the PDF (unless someone has a PDF for the R/RR models without all the addendums at the end of the book.) I'm also hoping I can OCR it so it's easier to search for information but that's at the end of the list.
     
  13. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    And of course after dropping R model specs into the spreadsheet I realized I'm basically converting an R into an N (head is from an N model) so...more work to do! I'll also double check any differences between R/N that I have in my spec sheet. May turn this into a living document for others to snag. I much prefer a checklist/running document over "I did that like 2 weeks ago and it was in spec...I think"
     
  14. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    IF you've got all of the documents in decent quality PDF's then depending on what platform you're using, on a Mac you can just remove and add pages from PDF's using Preview - work on a duplicate so that you don't modify the original

    Acrobat will do all of this also, but I find that program to be a PITA for the most part

    As for OCR - there are online tools

    I outlined the process and the potential workflow in this thread, but this involved translation, which fortunately you don't have to do
    https://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/japanese-english-translation.11156/

    It's definitely a task for a long night when you're bored and there's nothing on TV or anything else to distract you
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    Unfortunately I'm a linux dork, which sucks hard when dealing with modifying PDFs of any type. I have 2 copies. 1 that was poorly scanned and one that almost looks like it was published as a PDF. Thanks for posting the translation process! I have a friend I might be able to talk into doing the page shuffle to make it easier to find things.
     
  16. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    MAN! - There is nothing unfortunate about being a linux dork - which distro? I'm a fan of Mint nowadays and MX because they will boot an old Macbook Pro that I have with dual graphics without much fuss

    Surprised there isn't one installed by default, but I was using Mint and MX to transfer files between ExFat, NTFS and HFS+ because of the AHEM 'incompatibility' between the OS's and their file systems, which is back because of the deprecation of NTFS3G due to security issues - JOKE!

    Anyway Let me see what progs will modify PDF's

    EDIT

    PDFSHuffler comes up, which is a GUI front end for a python script - it has been forked to PDF Arranger which seems be getting more development attention
    Hope this helps

    Otherwise, it may be achievable by printing to PDF the relevant page ranges from the relevant documents then combining these output files into one complete and compiled document.

    Otherwise anyone with a Mac can use Preview to shuffle the pages (delete and add) in the required sequence(s) for you.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  17. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    using xubuntustudio-ish at home, but had hell with real-time kernel and secureboot. One day I might get around to fixing it but then again one of the reasons I switched from more painful distributions (slackware, arch, debian) is ubuntu "just works" (most of the time.) Also using it professionally really drains my desire to do any linux based projects at home. I'll look into the tools you've mentioned, thanks!
     
  18. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    I used to work at a company that owned the EFTPOS network, made custom terminals for the big 4 banks in Oz, and came up with the concept and code for tap an go and the chips in the cards
    I did their photography, maintained their websites and did graphics though, so that wasn't my dept.
    But one of the guys in smartcards was big into Linux, I asked him which distro, it was Debian at that time, I mentioned Ubuntu/Mint - he went NAAH, toy Distros - next week he came in and said I've switched to Ubuntu

    I was on Debian for ~3 years previously, but patches and package prerequisites/dependencies just slowly broke things, so I switched to Mint for dual boot on a Macbook Pro, Ubuntu wouldn't deal with the dual graphics

    Overall Linux has come such a long way, you can throw a bootable CD/DVD/USB at almost any machine and be up on a live system in minutes, which can be so damned handy for rescuing data

    They've done amazing work
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    I was using FreeBSD on a PC until Steve Jobs went back to Apple, threw the garbage OS in the bin and stuck a nice front end onto a BSD core. That was enough for me. I bought a Mac Mini and shares in Apple.
     
  20. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    I'm on a 13 year old 13" Macbook Pro which got an SSD upgrade - boots plenty fast and is totally usable
    Makes me wonder about those wasted years wrestling with M$ WindBloze, but when it comes to it, I am OS agnostic, unless it really gets in the way
    I know many revere NeXT and NeXTSTEP, which is the progenitor of MacOS, I've never had the pleasure of playing with one though

    Consider we're using variants of UNIX which was written in the 1960's - that's impressive!
     

Share This Page