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Pinned Coil On Plug conversions - COP

Discussion in 'Tech Tips' started by Linkin, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. Dropdead53

    Dropdead53 Active Member

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    I bought my coils from a company called “NP Boosted” and they come with the plugs and a length of wire.

    cops wiring.jpeg

    C579B5F7-DDD6-445F-A82B-F049318F5CF7.jpeg
     
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  2. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Which ones are they on the website?
     
  3. Dropdead53

    Dropdead53 Active Member

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    From memory they are 2004 Suzuki gsxr600 performance coils.
    See picture attached of screenshot of the page, how they look in the picture is how they come, with the plugs and a short length of wire on the plugs


    AAB78521-5F3C-4192-9C98-41F04945FA32.png
     
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  4. Frankster

    Frankster See the World before you leave it Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I think they're the ones @my67xr used for his FZR. Following text from his writeup...

    "129700-4400 1.5 Ohm's primary, 10-15K Ohm's secondary, Length 128mm (5"), used on 2001-2003 GSXR600. Tested the 129700-4400 they pull .4A at idle (1600RPM) and they draw .9A around 6000rpm so less than I thought it'd be. The Voltage at the coils is 13.93V from the TCI."
     
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  5. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I used the old wiring and old plug's off a BA Falcon / SXTerritory coil loom on my FZR
     
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  6. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    @GreyImport Looking back at what i wrote for the wiring needed they should be fine with 15A or 20A wire so 18 Gauge or 16 Gauge
    Yeah @Frankster they're the same as i used Denso 129700-4400 off the 2001-2003 GSXR600
     
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  7. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Remember you're dealing with an AC voltage, from everything I've read something rated for say 400V DC is capable of carrying 1000V AC or thereabouts so the wires don't have to be too thick - compare with the OEM coil wiring for an indication
     
  8. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    FZR250'S have a Transistor Controlled Ignition so run's off DC, CDI's put out AC
     
  9. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    It's actually a blend of the two, probably looks like a sawtooth shape with only the positive half of the wave, like the pulses from a bridge rectifier, spaced out a lot more with mostly flat (no voltage/current and then spikes), as it charges for milliseconds, then switches to ground to trigger the spark
    Point being that if you say look at the specs for the transistors it lists 6A constant current capacity with 15A (x2.5) higher for pulse, so the wires would be fine for 2/5 of the constant DC current capacity because it's momentary and doesn't generate a lot of heat and therefore resistance in the process.

    One small bit to add, CDI's charge the capacitors on AC - basically the same as any camera flash - the squeal you can hear from them is a crystal, running a chip at super high frequency converting the DC from the batteries into AC, through a little transformer - the bit that's squealing, to step up to several hundred volts for the capacitor.

    That means there's several hundred volts of potential across the flash tube through the gas, THEN there's another tiny little trigger transformer that takes that several hundred volts into the region of 10's of thousands of volts with a wire around or along the tube, when it gets closed to ground the gas ionises and flashes - there's a lot of similarities with spark sytems
     
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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  10. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    Is there any of these coils in the 0.55-0.65ohm range ??
     
  11. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Yeah there would be, something off a bike that has cdi ignition instead of TCI wasted spark
    Will see if i can find something
     
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  12. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  13. Jethalter

    Jethalter Active Member Premium Member

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    hmmm in wonder if it would trigger a fault code with the efi, manual is specific in .50 to .65 ohm coils.
    if i can get them cheap enough be worth a try tho
     
  14. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Electrical gurus unite ..... :D

    This is for the FZR COPs conversion
    Original wiring from the stock coils to the connector plugs are opposite ... yellow plug has pink+ on the 'bottom' and white plug has pink+ on 'top'
    Why are they opposite or doesnt it matter ?

    coil plugs 1.png

    The corresponding connectors in the loom ... arnt both the 'bottom' red(?) wires + ? :idk:

    coil plugs 2.png

    Of course Ill remove the old wiring and spades for new ones but retain the stock connectors for the new setup

    spades out.png
     
  15. Frankster

    Frankster See the World before you leave it Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    This is for the FZR COPs conversion: Original wiring from the stock coils to the connector plugs are opposite ... yellow plug has pink+ on the 'bottom' and white plug has pink+ on 'top'. Why are they opposite or doesn't it matter?

    Shouldn't matter, as it's just completing a circuit.
     
  16. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK, on that, first question: are the OEM coils marked with + & -?

    Have you had your TCI box open? I seem to recall that they were marked and you could follow the traces to the transistors to check that the black wires on the TCI plug ends go to the same pins on the transistors
     
  17. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Denso 129700-4400 coil's are wired up so the positive from the TCI goes to the left terminal
    I'm pretty sure i checked with the Suzuki diagram when wiring them up ?


    20200517_114812.jpg

    Yes they are, positive to the right, negative to the left




    Never looked, but the black wire's are only for the jumper loom's from the main harness to the coil's
    Main harness from the TCI use's orange and brown wire's to trigger the coil's

    20200517_120126.jpg
     
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  18. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Well there you have it, the reversed pins at those plugs may follow through to the spade connectors on the OEM coils and make sense with respect to + & -

    I'd be relying on the original connections to the OEM coils regarding polarity as long as they haven't been unplugged and re-plugged perhaps reversed
     
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  19. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Yes stock coils are clearly marked +/-
    I checked the coil wiring/connectors on the 3LN6 here and its the same (pink to + and black to - ) .... so Ill just follow the stock polarity setup when doing the new coils


    So going on everyones wiring diagrams this is correct for those playing at home ... ?
    Stick coil polarity

    cop polarity.png


    connectors.png
     
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  20. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Yeah look's good

    Are you fitting new terminal's to the end's of your cop loom, and then clipping them into the original plastic housing's so you can plug them directly into the main harness?
    https://www.jaycar.com.au/6-3mm-non-insulated-spade-connectors-pk-10/p/PT4630




    Also for interest's sake, my spare 3LN1 harness has both the red w/white stripe wire's are going into on the bottom side of the plug's
    And my harness has 1x orange and one grey wire ?
    Your differently wired plug may have had the wire's swapped around at some stage ?

    20200517_140127.jpg
     

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