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Help My 2001 ZZR250

Discussion in 'Kawasaki 250cc Twins' started by Sandra, Sep 17, 2015.

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  1. Peter079

    Peter079 Active Member

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    Will it try to start with "start ya bastard" or by spraying some fuel into the carbies? About 5 squirts of fuel into each carby and it should try to start. At least you will know if it is a fuel problem.
    Never use ethanol fuel in the zzr250. I was using ethanol fuel in my zzr and when I left it for a week it would not want to start. Every time I came to start it after a week, it wouldn't start.

    I came to realise that the carby float needles were stuck. A few (careful) taps on the side of the carby would dislodge them and then it would start. My understanding is that the ethanol swells the rubber(viton) tip on the needles and they get stuck closed.
    I never used Ethanol after that and it always started first go.

    Also as one of the previous posters has said, try starting with the clutch lever pulled in. If it does start with the clutch in, but stalls as you are letting it out, then you have a faulty neutral switch. On mine, the neutral light was ON, but the neutral Switch was still faulty (600 ohms). The neutral light will still work with 600 ohm resistance, but the engine will not run.
     
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    Peter079, Dec 12, 2015
    #61
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    @Peter079 What ethanol blend was it?

    Just to to expand on Peter's comment regarding swelling caused by Ethanol blend fuels. This could well be true but does not indicate that using a fluoroelastomer (what Viton is) for the tip of the float needle was a bad choice by the factory. In fact these elastomers suffer the least swell and degradation when exposed to any fuel. It would be necessary to repeat that test with new needles and seats to confirm that they could not tolerate the slight increase in expansion from the ethanol blend without becoming jammed.

    "All of the elastomer specimens that were exposed to the test fuels (including Fuel C) exhibited some level of volume swell. Ethanol was found to further increase the volume swell and produce softening. The level of swell is an indication of solubility, and for most elastomers tested, the highest level of swell occurred with either the CE10a or CE17a (not CE25a). This result suggests that the highest level of mutual solubility for elastomers occurs at relatively low levels of added ethanol. After drying for 20hr at 60oC, all of the samples, except the fluorocarbons, exhibited some level of shrinkage and mass loss. Interestingly, the fluorocarbons retained a slight increase in dry mass and volume, indicating that residual test fluids were trapped in the microstructure (even after dry-out)."

    The fuel C referred to is unleaded gasoline. Contrary to what many may think the lower concentrations of Ethanol were worse. In many countries, USA being one, producers are allowed to add up to 5% ethanol to fuel without being obliged to inform the consumer.


    Please refer to http://info.ornl.gov/sites/publications/files/Pub27766.pdf
    Intermediate Ethanol Blends Infrastructure Materials Compatibility Study: Elastomers, Metals, and Sealants
    This research paper by Oak Ridge National Laboratory is the most comprehensive that I have found.

    cheers
    Blair
     
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    maelstrom, Dec 12, 2015
    #62
  3. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    I have a can if that stuff. Unfortunately it didnt help to get it going this time.

    This bike has never had ethanol feul, i have always used vortex 98 in it. I dont even use it in my car.
     
    Sandra, Dec 13, 2015
    #63
  4. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Have you checked the valve clearances lately? A riding valve will make it hard to start (or not start, see my post on my VT250).
     
    Murdo, Dec 13, 2015
    #64
  5. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    The bike shop done them at the beginning of this year
     
    Sandra, Dec 13, 2015
    #65
  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Ok, head scratch!!!! :oops:
    You have spark, compression and fuel, so it should start. :mad:
    Have you tried swearing or a prayer to the motorcycling gods? :lolsign:

    I think your on the right track to sell it.
     
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    Murdo, Dec 13, 2015
    #66
  7. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    Yep have used some colourful language with this bike

    I am taking the carbys off today to clean them, as it might be a fuel issue. As when i removed the plugs there was no fuel smell.

    But if this doesnt get it going, then i will part with it
     
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    Sandra, Dec 13, 2015
    #67
  8. Peter079

    Peter079 Active Member

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    Hi Maelstrom.

    The fuel I used (used to use), was the E10 from the Woolworths petrol station down the road. A quick fill up before going to work. When I bought the bike, I cleaned the carbys and installed a mesh filter. About a month later I had the starting problems, usually when the bike sat for more than 4 days. A few taps on the side of the carby would get it going, indicating stuck needles.

    This is when I decided to not use ethanol fuel anymore, and surprisingly I never had a hard start problem again. Could it have been a coincidence? Perhaps, I don't know.

    In my first post I referred to the tip on the float needle as being Viton (FKM). This was just an uneducated guess. I know a lot of the newer ones are viton, but I'm not sure what material they (Kawasaki) used back then (in 1991). It may have been nitrile (NBR). I know Viton (FKM) is superior to Nitrile (NBR) and reading through the link in your last post ( especially pages 42 and 43), it also states that Fluorocarbons swell less than NBR's in ethanol blended fuels.

     
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    Peter079, Dec 13, 2015
    #68
  9. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    I have pulled the carbies out, cleaned the Jets, they were full of crap. Pit it all back together, runs better then before, but now i have a fuel leak from the fuel bowl. So here i go again
    with dismantling it again
     
    Sandra, Dec 30, 2015
    #69
  10. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Be careful with the float bowl screws. Sometimes, some are longer than others and must go in a specific spot, otherwise they hit against something and the fuel bowl isn't sealed.
     
    Linkin, Dec 30, 2015
    #70
  11. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    Thanks Linkin

    When i took them out they were all the same size.

    I have ordered new gaskets and screws
     
    Sandra, Dec 30, 2015
    #71
  12. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    Great news, might be time to drain that tank and get any gunk out
     
    kiffsta, Dec 30, 2015
    #72
  13. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    Already done.

    The bike sound better then it ever has, am proud of the time and hard work i have put into this bike to hear it run.

    It has to go for a pink slip next month.
     
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    Sandra, Dec 30, 2015
    #73
  14. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    Replaced the float chamber seals (as they where leaking) put the bike back together, started the bike without using the choke and no throttle and it's rev's went up to 4000rpm.

    I can't work out why and not really looking forward to pulling it apart again.
     
    Sandra, Feb 1, 2016
    #74
  15. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Does it stay at a constant 4000 ?

    Check that the throttle cable is sitting correctly and that u havnt moved the idle adjusting knob ..... also that the choke cable is right also .... it will rev high if the choke is on
     
    GreyImport, Feb 1, 2016
    #75
  16. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    Yes it stays on 4000

    It revs high without any cables attached to the carby.

    Which way does the idle knob go to decrease the it
     
    Sandra, Feb 1, 2016
    #76
  17. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Normally, turning clockwise will open the butterfly and anticlockwise will close them.
     
    Frankster, Feb 1, 2016
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  18. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    Thanks

    I will open them too see if that is the cause
     
    Sandra, Feb 1, 2016
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  19. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Close them and the revs should drop. If you go too far the bike will have trouble starting and won't idle.
     
    Frankster, Feb 1, 2016
    #79
  20. Sandra

    Sandra Active Member

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    All issues solved with this little bike, it passed a pinkslip and on thursday it will be back on the road again.

    It sounds very different and is more responsive then its ever.

    Thanks for all the advice, looking forward to get out on the bike again
     
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    Sandra, Mar 5, 2016
    #80
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