/ Register

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Project My Fizzer

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by GreyImport, Sep 24, 2012.

Page 23 of 57
  1. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    The 20mm is for the 400 and as far as we know it is more like 10 for the 250.
     
    maelstrom, Dec 16, 2013
    #441
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    So what would happen if you dropped the float level that far. I just played with my 400 carb and it would move the level to something like this. I suggest you try it Mr Grey.
    FuelLevel2.png
     
    maelstrom, Dec 16, 2013
    #442
  3. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Which means theres a 30mm difference in their fuel levels....and surely the bowl capacities are close?
    So the 250 needs bucket loads more ready fuel to operate correctly........ or have I got my head up my arse? :D

    Edit: yea maybe the 250 carb needs alot LESS in the bowl
     
    GreyImport, Dec 16, 2013
    #443
  4. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    1,429
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    I would read the float chamber line as the float bowl gasket sealing surface as that's where you measure float height, on out carbs with the carb vertical, the chamber would be almost empty at 21mm below the reference line on the float chamber

    anyway...
     
    ruckusman, Dec 16, 2013
    #444
  5. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    As I understand it the 'float chamber line' is the one that is shown in the diagrams. The line marked on the outside of the float bowl.
    Sorry Mr Grey you lost me. Yours is about 10 below the line. 20 is for the 400.
     
    maelstrom, Dec 16, 2013
    #445
  6. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Arnt we talking this line here ?

    Fuel level.png


    And heres the other carb specs that were 'translated' ..... no mention of above or below ..... and a different measurement also.

    Spec 1.png

    Spec 2.png
     
    • Like Like x 1
    GreyImport, Dec 16, 2013
    #446
  7. willfzr2503ln

    willfzr2503ln Active Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    My Bike:
    fzr 250 3ln
    it seems odd if the level should be 10mm below the line
    why is it only a starting up problem, for me it is anyway , does the bowl not get a chance to fill up once running maybe
    seem to be getting closer though
     
    willfzr2503ln, Dec 16, 2013
    #447
  8. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Theres been a few new members from Japan lately , some with FZRs .... its a pity they dont get into posting and only pinch the manuals and such and head for the hills...... apart from finding out their settings , some translating would be handy also.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    GreyImport, Dec 16, 2013
    #448
  9. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Yes Mr Grey that is the line. 9.2mm below that line when your carbs are ???? vertical according to the 400 3TJ1 manual.
     
    maelstrom, Dec 16, 2013
    #449
  10. willfzr2503ln

    willfzr2503ln Active Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    My Bike:
    fzr 250 3ln
    i was in negotiation with a Japanese uni student to translate a manual , would have cost me almost $800
    kinda not worth it she wasn't a mechanic so translation would have been lost

    maelstrom are those carbs the same at the 3lns
     
    willfzr2503ln, Dec 16, 2013
    #450
  11. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    It explains why the jet housing is tilted at such a severe angle.
     
    maelstrom, Dec 16, 2013
    #451
  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Will,
    Yes they are the same type but some of the parts are different. For example the jet housing. If the 400 is longer then that would explain the difference in float level between the 250 and 400.

    The 3LN3 and 3LN5 have the same jet housing as the Zeal, which is different to the 3LN1, and that probably explains the slight difference between the fuel level for the Zeal and the 3LN1.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    maelstrom, Dec 16, 2013
    #452
  13. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    1,429
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    Can anyone tell me if those translations are of the 3LN1, because the 3.5/5 for carbs 1 & 4, and the 3/5 for carbs 2 & 3 looks to be the pilot screw turns.

    The different fuel level at 9.2mm looks to be interesting also.

    If your fuel level is at 10.5mm or thereabouts be happy. If it needs to be lowered to 9.2mm later then so be it, but I seriously it would be causing it not to rev at all, run slightly richer yes.

    With some luck I'll have my bike on the road today so will be able to actually know how it's running, not just how it's revving in the garage - then the fun begins.

    From the wiring diagram Maelstrom posted I'd be looking at suspect connections for everything associated with the safety circuits going to the ignition unit and both the clutch switch and the kickstand switch are inter-related.

    peace out
     
    • Like Like x 1
    ruckusman, Dec 17, 2013
    #453
  14. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    The 9.2 comes from the 3LN1 supplement which I bought from Japan and scanned to pdf. It is available on my 3LN1 page. I don't think it has been uploaded to this forum yet. If the level is supposed to be below the line then 9.2 will be richer than 10.5, and if above leaner.
    cheers
    Blair
     
    • Like Like x 1
    maelstrom, Dec 17, 2013
    #454
  15. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Ok , I decided to delve deeper into the varying 'specs' of the carbs and as ruckus has asked which models they apply to.
    I too was wondering the same as comparing the 2KR , 3LN, Zeal and even the 400 .... the fuel level and the measuring method arnt comparable.
    The very important point with the 3LN of measuring above or below the line, jacking up the bike to level the carbs and even the position of the carbs out of the bike is not available anywhere in printed form (manual,spec sheet etc).
    The information is only handed down thru forum postings.

    The only place that information could possibly be found is here ..... not very cost effective but tempting.

    http://japan.webike.net/products/9371573.html

    Or maybe this ....

    http://japan.webike.net/products/9371125.html

    Heres a breakdown of the carb specs available and the models they apply to ...... the source for model info is here ...
    http://my-x15.net/FZR_INFO.html

    #1 Yamaha FZR250 3LN Service Manual (supplement)

    http://2fiftycc.com/index.php?resources/yamaha-fzr250-3ln-service-manual-japanese-part-1.202/

    3LN1 Manual carb specs.jpg

    #2 Yamaha FZR250R 3LN Specifications Sheet

    http://2fiftycc.com/index.php?resources/yamaha-fzr250r-3ln-specifications.24/

    3LN1 SPEC SHEET carb specs.jpg



    Conclusion:
    #1 is for the 3LN1 Fuel Height 9.2mm
    #2 is for the 3LN7 Fuel Height 10.5mm
     
    GreyImport, Dec 17, 2013
    #455
  16. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    And now for some more. This is from the TDM850 which also uses BDST carbs.
    Yamaha_TDM850_1996_Service_Manual_p205.png
     
    maelstrom, Dec 17, 2013
    #456
  17. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    The information that I posted which mentions the carbs being vertical is from the FZR400 manual. It is available from my 3TJ1 page. http://litetek.co/Carb_Kit_Yamaha_3TJ1.html The only significance being that it is written in English and it is for BDST carbs.

    The Ducati M900 also used the same carbs as the TRX and TDM850 Yamaha. It's service manual has nothing in it regarding the float/fuel level.
     
    maelstrom, Dec 17, 2013
    #457
  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    But wait there is more. The float bowl vent/overflow tubes are normally located above the float level. Well in the old days on a normal carb. On the BDST the vent hole is located up near the float valve needle. If Mr Grey's float level was too high, by 20mm, then it should be above the vent hole.
    On my FZR400 the line that Mr Grey pointed to is approximately 22 mm below the secret "Mikuni" Line.
     
    maelstrom, Dec 17, 2013
    #458
  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    3,480
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    My conclusion:
    Looks like whoever did the illustration of the float bowl for the 250 and 400 bikes may have drawn the wrong line. The from line would appear to be under the word Mikuni and the measurement is correct, 'below'.
    I am surprised that the 250 level is that much higher than the 400 and 850.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
    maelstrom, Dec 17, 2013
    #459
  20. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Sounds good to me ...... every other fuel level is taken below the line, 'except' the 3LN (which has no official evidence and is based on heresay)

    The line under the Mikuni name on the bowl is certainly not part of their logo

    Fuel level 2.png

    What the lower line is for then , I have no idea.

    My conclusion would be .... fuel level for a 3LN1 is 9.2mm below the top Mikuni line.

    Throw rocks at me if you please :commando:
     
    GreyImport, Dec 17, 2013
    #460
Page 23 of 57

Share This Page