1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Member Newby- Electric conversion of Megelli 250r

Discussion in 'New Members Say Gday' started by ron berry, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    Hi Ron here, new to the forum.
    I am located in northern NSW Australia and rode a Yamaha RZ for 17 years and am looking to get back into motorcycling in a new way.
    I am looking for some parts to fix up a Megelli 250r frame I was planning to use on an electric conversion. I am missing;
    back shock
    rear subframe
    both brakes
    chain
    rear axle and blocks
    tail light
    side covers
    front mudguard
    sidestand

    I have an engine liquid cooled which has no clutch or starter which was apparently good i can swap or sell if anyone needs it. Hoping someone here can help with parts.
    Also wondering if anyone successfully downloaded the manual from the resources page? Doesn't seem to work.
    I have 6 lithium LiMnFePO4 batteries from a nissan leaf to use and a battrium BMS, a 48V kelly controller and Mars m109 motor, throttle assembly and a contacter and some cabling already, just putting the bike together, found it in pieces with a complete air cooled petrol powered bike to ride meantime. Need a starter and keys for it to get registration for it.
    Parts for chinese made bikes seem to be hard to find.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sydney
    My Bike:
    1987 Yamaha SRX250, Honda 1975 CB400F
    Welcome aboard Ron.. to be able to access info from the resources section you need to be a Premium Member.. there is a link at the top of the Resources section.. just follow that.

    Boy.. that is a big project... seems like you are almost needing everything but the frame..lol
    I am interested in how you are going to run the electrics.. I have seen it done very simply with a car but it didnt go too far before needing to be recharged.. Most Electric drive vehicles have regenerative braking etc to assist in power supply.. so as I say.. its a big job.. and if you are wanting to have it registered you will need plenty of input from an Engineer to satisfy our Government agencies..
    Good luck with it.. I will be watching with interest.
     
  3. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,570
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    Maico 250, Royal Enfield 250, CF 250 V5 and 650TK, XL250, CBR250, ZZR250 plus a few others.
    Welcome Ron, good project.
     
  4. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,966
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's, 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G
    Welcome,
    sound's like a lot of work there.
    What has your engineer said about it all ?
    What are the spec's on the M109, how many kw's etc
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  5. Bob Sykes

    Bob Sykes Active Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Coffs Harbour
    My Bike:
    1981 Honda CB250RS 1996 CBSevenFifty
  6. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    Thanks Bob for that inspiring link, pretty much what I was thinking of doing. I have just now narrowly missed out on getting the Mars motor kit deal finalised in time and someone else got in before me so still looking for a motor. The kit retails at around 1800 so half that was a good deal. Spewin'.
    The Mars ME 109 is a high torque replacement for a Briggs and Stratton 3.5 Hp internal combustion engine and shares the same bolt pattern so it is a shoe in for your ride on mower and a solar panel shade roof would make it complete. It has about 180 Lb/inch of torque and around 15 Hp peak or 8 continuous rated which would do.
    I might contemplate a chinese hub kit back wheel like that guy used. The hub motor would be easier as it would not need a chain or front sprocket. I have a mount I got from one of the electric motorbike racing guys for two Agni motors, they make Cedric Lynch's motors in India, a nice axial flux design permanent magnet motor, they won isle of Mann on an electric bike with such a setup. I'll have to see what turns up.
    The NCOP 14 is a few pages of requirements and is the national code of practice for alternatively powered vehicles and having already had a conversation with the local engineer, (who charges 800 plus gst to go over it for the engineers certificate required to register it btw,) I think it should be pretty straight forward. I have shown him my electric car projects already. Basic requirements are cutoff switches nearby for emergencies, g force activated cutoff like an airbag sensor to cut the HV contactor, a few interlocks so you can't take off with the charger plugged in or turn it on when the throttle is on, orange HV cables and wiring as per the codes, not going more than 20% overweight or too far different from the original weight distribution and you're away. Wiring is simpler than a petrol motor. The requirements for NCOP14 could get considerably more complex as the OEM manufacturers start to make more electric vehicles but for now it is very simple.
    The manual for the Megelli is great and thanks for help re. parts guys, much appreciated.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. ShaneP

    ShaneP Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    572
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yeppoon
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 speed bike, Yamaha YZ/WR250F, Kawasaki ZX2R, Honda VTR250, DR350 (x 3.5), a couple of prototypes and whatever else.
    The other suggestion would have been to throw away the megelli and go a real bike: something like a zzr250 can be picked up for under $300, or an fzr that doesn't run for a little more style. I've just heard bad things about the megelli - not that I've had one.

    Have you seen Zero Motorcycles? Already on the market, been around 5-10years. But sounds like an interesting project.
     
  8. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    I really wanted a suzuki rg for vintage modified rego and have been looking for donor bikes for some time, not much for much under a grand around and the frame I have for the electric was surplus to an almost complete bike which I thought might save me some petrol in the meantime compared to driving although sounds like I have to look for the crack in the case first before buying a starter (I was told it was all it needed) before I realised the key was missing and the back brakes don't work... I guess I should have done more research on this very forum about the bike beforehand as I paid 800 for both and the spare frame is missing a lot of bits (despite being told it was a complete bike with the engine out.)
    Most of the problems people report seem to be engine related, if it stops and corners it will do for a donor frame. Parts availability for seals for shocks and brake pads could suck though although it looks likely they could become very cheap common "rollers" soon if the engines don't last...
    There are some motorbike like bicycles (stealth bomber) all the way to superbikes (lightning motorcycles) already available in electric drive and the Zero looks great fun. evAlbum.com has a huge list of conversions to check out, it is pretty mind boggling the stuff people have done. the fastest drag things have been electric for some time.
    I rode in a very fast lead acid powered subaru sherpa in Brisbane that was using the same electric parts (and the same 9 inch motor I am using in my rx7 project) from three cars ago (one rusted, one crashed) and he said he had done NIL to it for maintinece in 27 years of driving and 5 odometers in total. The most inspiring electric bike was the Axel Borg effort from Norway, http://www.evalbum.com/3318
    I was so impressed I bought his book on making the motor.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  9. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    If I had the dosh I would get one of these Slovenian glider motors but I might end up making a motor like Axel if nothing cheap turns up by the time the bike is ready.
    http://emrax.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/user_manual_for_emrax_motors.pdf
    YASA motors England already brushed me off trying to find out how much and then I realised they recently won the contract to supply their very funky yokeless motors to Bugatti for their new hybrid with three of their toughest in it, one for each front wheel and one for the crank of the v16, hydraulic drive diff for the rear. Completely insane 300kw of electric on top of the ordinary Chiron.
    Fair bit of stuffing around doing the battery box and Battery Management System BMS (Battery Management System made by Battrium based in Brisbane) although if you see the nice photos from the conversion bill posted the link to above the leaf batteries are pretty handily packaged; like sardine cans with bolts through the corners and frames top and bottom of the stacks and all the terminals are under the rubber covers on the ends to stop you frying your leg. I am hoping to fit those bits up top which should work with the Megelli as it has a subframe for the motor I can modify. Here is a pic of the project so far, I have the wheels but this is all that is able to be put together at this point before I find some parts, starting to wonder if wrecking the petrol burner might be the best option or if I can fit good calipers from something else. The swing arm is alloy and surprisingly light although the chunky alloy black bit is heavy as and the front red frame is steel as is the missing rear sub frame the seat is on so it is not all that light compared to an alloy box frame from a bigger capacity bike I suspect. Here is a picture of the batteries too; P1050093.JPG leaf%20battery.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  10. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,570
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    Maico 250, Royal Enfield 250, CF 250 V5 and 650TK, XL250, CBR250, ZZR250 plus a few others.
    Keen to see how you go with this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    I got no reply after two weeks from the megelli website, hmmm. order has been confirmed but awaiting shipping cost...
    Did find more expensive prices but encouraging new part availability from one remaining supplier singh vo on facebook.
    I have been selling leftover bits, someone was happy to get the engine for 60 bucks. I have a carb and some fairing leftovers, a thermostat, fairing mounts/bolts still.
    I have been wanting to get the other petrol burning bike that came with it going but still need to find a starter and get a key cut for the tank plus sort out a non functioning back brake plus get headlights and blinkers working for rego.
    There is a stand and a subframe on the way and rear shock arrived from wreckers so far. Got two keys cut but not the right one yet to match the tank but at least the electric one has a key now.
    To begin with I tried to get an fzr from 86 as I was keen to go vintage but it sold before I could pick it up, looked at donors for some time, starting to wish I had gotten the complete triumph bike for 800 to start with instead but I was tempted by the almost running other one to ride in the meantime. I guess trolling for parts will keep me busy for a while before the fun starts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  12. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    3,982
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    singh worked at motorsport importers and craig owned the business.
     
  13. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    still no answer from the Megelli website but some progress anyway.
    I have found chinese made hub motor wheels are pretty affordable and even come in 17" rims like this and would be adequate

    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.40.61454e134BKJZu

    a bit too tempting to go for over 300Nm of torque and 14kW

    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.4.61454e13GfJZce

    otherwise drive chain and a motor like the mars me109
    http://www.evdrives.com/product_p/mot-me0709.htm

    they have kits as do these guys at golden motor up to 20kW

    https://www.goldenmotor.com/eMotorcycle/frame-emotor.htm


    ted dillard even wrote a book on the subject called power in flux, he converted a yamaha VF 500 F

    https://evmc2.wordpress.com/about/


    and of course www.evalbum.com is another vast resource with all things electric for those who want to see some more
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    3,982
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    150kmh is faster than a petrol powered megelli[their speedo,s are optomistic]
     
  15. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,570
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    Maico 250, Royal Enfield 250, CF 250 V5 and 650TK, XL250, CBR250, ZZR250 plus a few others.
    Using that first 8,000watt one would be a good way to solve a lot of problems in one go.
     
  16. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    3,982
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    the 20 kilowatt one would make a mean drag bike.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    Yes that much power would be insane especially with maximum torque at zero rpm, could be bad for the shoulder sockets...
    I am tempted to get a 4 more leaf modules and go up from 48V as I could fit 96V worth of batteries in quite easily without using the tank area and they fit snugly inside the upper frame even, bonus. A hub motor would leave me the entire engine area for batteries so 120V is do-able to maximise the power.
    It's looking like a no brainer to go the first option 8000W for economy's sake at that voltage get some serious extra power and make it stupidly fast for not a lot more money and no more trouble. The bigger motor is around double and probably overkill.
    A bigger controller will allow short bursts of 4-5 times the power of a given motor for say 5 seconds before heat becomes an issue (but by then you would be backing off I think anyhow) as the ratings for electric drive are continuous ratings not peak like the I.C.E. there is a lot of headroom for short timescales.
    The extra batteries to bring it up to 96V would be another 700 roughly which sounds like a lot but it equates to 3000 charge cycles to still have 80% capacity so many years of not buying petrol is saving and the range would be double which would make it more useful.
    I built a recumbent electric bicycle and putting a full fairing on it made the range more than double as the drag co-efficient in the air is the main enemy. Seriously contemplating stealing the fairing off the recumbent and making an enclosed streamlined cockpit with solar panels on the roof as there is no fairing atm and motorbikes with windscreen wipers and a roof in the rain are not common enough.
    Cedric Lynch made the only electric fully enclosed motorbike I have seen and it was bullet shaped and very small frontal area with the motor and batteries behind him and he got over 400 miles range with a lithium battery pack. Impressively simple build with wipers and lights and all. It does look weird though. Someone else has it now i see...
    http://www.paulcompton.vispa.com/lynch1.htm
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    Sinh Vo has been very helpful with the parts and seems to know the bike well, wheras the Megelli website doesn't seem to have anyone at home, not in England even. The batteries fit very snugly into the frame and look to fit the engine cradle very well too. The first day got me to here from in the bucket stage.
    P1050087.JPG
    The project is progressing a bit now I have a subframe and a shock and a few more parts to bolt on. I got a 20 dollar blinker set and a 6 dollar tail light from ebay which zip tied on like it is meant to be there. More brake and frame parts on the way and I am still going to need a charger, a bunch of battery managment parts and a pendo to display it on, a pack voltage to 12V DC to DC converter, a contacter, emergency switches, lugs, a controller, a speedo, a cycle analyst, a motor, a throttle, a back axle and conduit, electrical boxes and cables and glans to have what I need for the electric conversion. 20180709_170745.jpg

    Keys for the locks set me back a bit and the parts are on the way to get the petrol burner hopefully working so I am looking to ride that around with a for sale sign on it to fund the motor and controller/recoup some investment. I still have some white fairing uppers to sell and a lower triangular brace for the fairing and a thermostat and regulator. 48 Volts of leaf modules looks like this stacked up.
    20180714_211333[1].jpg
    The plate next to the stack of leaf modules is the rack they bolt into that comes in the car.Tomorrow I am fixing my MIG welder so I can start to make the boxes to load them into. I have some importing crates I got for free from the back of the motorcycle shop that have small guage angle iron you can't seem to get here that looks great to make them from. I was planning to see if I can fit them into the frame, its snug but possible,
    20180714_211409[1].jpg
    this means I can add more volts later down low and can still work around a chain and motor if one turns up cheap again but the hub motor is very tempting given a straight tall battery box looks possible for lots of volts and all in one big simple box that goes right through the frame.
    20180714_211449[1].jpg
    Making sure it doesn't get ground away or punctured in an accident would be good.

    I imagine some sort of cover where the tank was will be needed and I am thinking a luggage space that can fit helmet and gloves and jacket would be cool especially if it was just the right shape to lie on on the longer trips. A windscreen would be good and I am chasing a LED headlight to somehow mount at the front and wondering what kind of fairing I want to build.
     
    • Nice Work Nice Work x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  19. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    I may add some aerodynamic modifications later just to see how much I can effect the range.
    When I built the recumbent electric solar bicycle I made a fairing from polystyrene and thin marine ply and it was incredibly strong, rigid an light and great building material to get curves with.
    At the time I was very inspired by a book on ultra streamlined vehicle design called the leading edge detailing the incredible lengths they go to streamlining solar challenge vehicles and that coupled with finding out that at 20kmph 80% of the energy you expend pedaling is overcoming wind resisitance and at 30kmph it was 97%. Rolling resistance and mechanical losses are constant with any speed but wind resistance get exponentially higher with speed. Cars typically at 80kmph are about even rolling and wind resistance. On a motorbike this would be considerably lower so aerodynamics is going to be the major limitation to range.
    The amazing Britten motorbike that won daytona had very good aerodynamics for a bike but I am dreaming of a weatherproof capsule. An enclosed bike would be a good thing for range if it was nicely streamlined and the main thing is the fishy tail shaped back end not the front which should be curved like the blunt nose of a plane.
    Here is a picture of the recumbent I built when I lost my licence for a year. At first with just the kids seats and the batteries and chain drive on it, already a hoot to ride
    recumbent.jpg
    I then built a fairing and windscreen so here is how it looks with with the lycra outer skin taken off and the windscreen and solar panels on top. It even had a stereo. Riding to town and being able to do a scary 60kmph on it with ease and the very narrow winding roads where I almost got wiped out several times each leg made me realise I wanted to go faster and preferably take up the whole road so it never got a lot of use on the road but the sensation of smooth silent power was never forgotten, hence where the EV habit began.
    back-of-bike-1.jpg bike%20cockpit.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Nice Work Nice Work x 1
  20. ron berry

    ron berry Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    My Bike:
    Megelli 250r
    Sorry I read the guidelines for the forum and I thought the 250(Watt) motor in the motored bike pictured in the previous post was not really relevant, sorry.
    The parts are here for the megelli 250 (cc) projects, so you can indeed get parts but only from Sinh Vo on facebook it seems. Nothing like parts to get the project going again. I have been playing with fairings and 12V electric gremlins for the petrol burner, anyone want to hazard a guess at what a cheap Megelli bitza might be worth? offers anyone? Time to get funds together for the back wheel hubmotor, looks like a group buy amongst EV enthusiasts might be in order so I am going to hit up the AEVA forum membership and see if anyone is thinking along the same lines and see if the postage cost can be greatly reduced by getting a pallet load of bits. I have a customer who wants their 1950 Austin A40 ute converted to electric and I have assembled them LiFeMnPO4 battery modules from a Nissan leaf into 120V packs and I am eyeing off hub motors for that to put on the pallet anyway if they front the ponies for them any time soon we are away. Waiting on definite pricing quote from the makers...
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page