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Help Spada mystery - VIN

Discussion in 'Honda 250cc Twins' started by WEREWASI, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. WEREWASI

    WEREWASI Active Member

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  2. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    It is like any other Japanese bike that is Sold by the Manufacturer in Australia through their Dealer Network.. it was built to comply with applicable ADR's etc, hence the Compliance Plate.
    He is 100% correct... Your bike and mine were imported into Australia by Honda Motor Corp and the compliance plates are affixed by Honda.
     
  3. WEREWASI

    WEREWASI Active Member

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    so is yours the same i.e. speedo, brake reservoir caps, warning light?
    is it likely that they just sat until 1991
     
  4. WEREWASI

    WEREWASI Active Member

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    Andy,
    the RTA guy has been to look at the bike and went over it looking for evidence of its being MADE in 1990. The brake lines have been replaced and don't have the date stencilled on them like the ones on my CX650 (6/83). Have you got a date on yours?
    The sidecovers have a Mar 89 stamped on them but these could have been made by a 3rd party and just supplied to Honda.
    The brake calipers (front) have F89 stamped on them. There doesn't seem to be any other evidence of a build date..
    He did tell me that the bike was initially sold by a dealer on Parramatta road at Leichardt in 1991. I can't remember any Honda dealer there.
    Other questions
    Has yours got the 'Japanese' characters on the brake reservoirs?
    Has it got the speedo warning light?
    Has it got an on/off headlight switch?

    He examined the engine number MC15E 1049331 but said that this just confused him because the 1989 Spada has MC15E 1052704. You'd think the Honda plant would be using engines with numbers in sequence, otherwise you end up with a Moto Guzzi cockup where the change to roller tappets on Griso/Stelvios can't be pinpointed by having a known engine number when the change was made.(and therefore, logically ALL numbers after this were "rollers") ("look, Luigi, I just found some more engines under my workbench')
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  5. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    If it is not a grey import but an official honda import sold from a dealership, the date of first registration is the year in which it is 'manufactured' - in essence, the first registration date is the build date as far as the RMS are concerned. You get the same thing with modern bikes/cars sitting in dealerships and only first registered when they are sold.
     
  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Disagree with you there @Linkin. Today I registered one of my CF's that I bought in Feburary 2015 and it is listed on the rego and insurance papers as a 2014 model (which it is).
     
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  7. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Build date will always be what is on the vin plate or compliance plate.. That is why these days Cars are know as MYXX with the XX being the year of Manufacture. Probably the same with modern bikes now as well when the same basic model runs over more than a year without major updates...
    As for my Spada... well I consider it to be a 1991 build.
    As you can see, the front brake line says 4/91, the master cylinder only has Nissin on it but the cover is all in English and my headlight has Off, Parkers and main beam (3 position switch). No Speed warning light either.
    If you wait a little while just register it for 6 months and then come Jan 2021 go Historic rego.. 6 monthly Rego is $67 plus the Greenslip and based on a previous thread being in the Country gives you better pricing than me in the Sydney.
    You still need either a Blue Slip or Pink slip depending on how long it has been out of rego. It isnt a big deal to me to be honest.
    UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1374.jpg
    UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1375.jpg
     
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  8. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    The Honda dealer on parramatta was possibly “Mentor Mororcycles” owned by a colourful character called Billy Hill. They used to sponsor an equally colourful racer called Wayne Gardner and had a cardboard cutout of him in the doorway. Purchased my only ever brand new bike from them in the mid eighties.
     
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  9. supanaut

    supanaut Active Member

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    It makes a real mess of things... Service NSW has mine down as a "2002 SILVER ATK VT250 (1989-1990) MOTOR CYCLE" when it's a grey import 1990 and to make matters worse, my insurance and CTP has it listed as a "2002 HONDA VTR250"

    I tried to explain to them that it's a 1990 Honda VT250 but they didn't understand.

    Just hope I don't run into any problem when I go to historic rego it.
     
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  10. spatbent

    spatbent Active Member Premium Member

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    I remember Mentor's Wayne Gardner stand... you'd see it as you drove through Leichhardt into the city.
    Win it Wayne!
    My build number is 1000502. The pic posted by my67xr says that 18392 MC20's were built.
    Were they only built for one year?
    That would make mine week two.
    Vintage!
     
  11. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    As @Murdo mentioned before... it goes on Year of manufacture...not the month
     
  12. WEREWASI

    WEREWASI Active Member

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    Andy quote:
    "As you can see, the front brake line says 4/91, the master cylinder only has Nissin on it but the cover is all in English and my headlight has Off, Parkers and main b've eam (3 position switch). No Speed warning light either."

    14 bikes apart on the line, probably shipped at the same time , yet there are differences in two areas!!!!!!!!

    That 4/91 brake hose is not helpful in contending that it was built in 1990.

    I'm not desperate to register it but will do so when RTAs Mr X says it's OK for 1990 classic. It's been on full rego but I didn't renew it - have too many other bikes to ride.

    Now that i've pinched the carbs off "tHE tREVS"ratbike, it is going to the hibernation shed. It has 89 on the papers (6MBHONDA2K25116501 eng no 202138 so could go on classic rego. However my club examiner at Grafton is not overly impressed with its condition and he's effectively doing the blue slip on it.

    Supanaut.
    You will get nowhere with your local Service NSW. Waste of time even talking to them. You need to talk to my "friend" when he has delivered his verdict on my Spada. As I said earlier, he doesn't want a whole lot of guys piling on him while he's "considering" the issue. I'll let you know when he gets back to me.

    Mentor Motorcycles. I only remember their Honda bike shop at Crows Nest on PAc Hwy near River Road, early 80s.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  13. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    The problem is that you don’t know what has been changed over the years and what hasn’t. Even down to engines.
    As Honda have never used “matching numbers” it confuses plenty of people. I am not sure if my engine number and can’t check it now till the weekend as I head south today to be in Melbourne tomorrow to pick up my new company chariot.

    Does yours have the Speed Warning light? I thought this was only Japanese Market so maybe the cluster has been changed.
    How are your lights switched? As I said, mine has a 3 position switch, Off, Parker’s and then main beam.
    Mine looks to be pretty much original but as I don’t know the previous owners it is impossible to say.
    My PPR report says mine was Complied in May 91 as per the VIN plate.
    As mentioned I am not fussed either way with Rego.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  14. WEREWASI

    WEREWASI Active Member

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    Well, that went well.
    I got a call from the inspection guy who said that there was an email for me to show the local RMS (RTA) stating that it was a a 1990 model (not 1991) and eligible for club rego.
    However I don't think that they will do the registration without talking to the VIN ID people, themselves. That's OK. I can wait.

    So Andy, you can probably register yours. He said he would deal with them on a case by case basis.

    Supanaut - if any one can help you, he's the man. Ring Shannon at VEHICLE IDENTITY UNIT 02 8335 9447
     
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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  15. supanaut

    supanaut Active Member

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    That's awesome, thanks mate. I've actually given my Spada to my son now as I had no room in my garage due to picking up another project. I think he's keen to put it on historic rego once the current rego runs out so that info is a big help. cheers
     
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  16. smoKEMup

    smoKEMup Member

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    Thanks for the great VIN info fellows I say in a non specific allocation of gender identification to the posters (??). Right enough of the PC rubbish.
    I have 2 Spada's both with locally produced VIN plates, as opposed to the Honda Australia VIN plate, so both are 'grey imports'. I bought one bike from a guy Logan QLD - and for those unfamiliar with the Qld suburbs I hurriedly did a PPSR search when I got home as the bike was remarkably cheap! The second bike came from Lismore area (??) I think, well the deal was done outside a cane mill from somewhere down that way many moons ago, maybe 4 years or more. this bike was going to be a spares bike for the first one as it was a complete, cheap but non runner. Both are the really fast red ones!
    Bike 1 (I refuse to call it B1) was made ready for it's RWC inspection and for registration and I had intended to put it on the Historic books in Qld. I took it to the inspector whom I normally use but he was going to write it up as a 1998 model as that's what was on the VIN attached to the frame. 1998 = no historic entitlement! I could not find a tag (in English) stating a manufacture date to argue the point as he was adamant the bike had to be registered as a 1998 model ie. that's what the local plate said.
    I believe the Qld requirements for SIVS has now changed as vehicles 30yrs or older don't require a VIN plate to be affixed for registration - the proof is my 1984 VT250FE. It's an import without VIN, not previously registered but accepted by Qld DOT as it was over 30yrs old. But the big HOWEVER on this Spada is that the original frame number stamped into the head-stem has been XXX'd out when the local plate was fitted (in-fact both frames have been).
    So, where's all this going I hear you ask, well I wish I knew is my only answer to that. Anyone from Qld "know" a way around this?
    The '84 VT250FE. 20190119_153555[1].jpg
     
  17. smoKEMup

    smoKEMup Member

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    Ok, partial mystery solved after the lifting of the fog of old age!, Bike 2 (that I refuse to call B2) came from Condong NSW near Murwillembah! The rest is still a PITA!
    I'll post some VIN pics and numbers/importer details tomorrow.
     
  18. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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  19. smoKEMup

    smoKEMup Member

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    Thanks for the info my67xr. We currently have 4000cc's of VT Honda's in various iterations and a VTR1000 that I told my wife was the USA version but made bigger to cart the 'over sized' Americans around - it's worked so far.
    I was never a Honda fan after the great debacle of CB360 ownership in 1983, totally against Honda from that year forward. Looked at the just released VT250's as I was riding (pushing) 60km each way to work each day and as a youngster had very little coin to drop on one and Honda wanted a premium price - yet another nail in the Honda ownership coffin. Ended up with an XL250S but that's another story. Fast forward 2 generations and I can now afford my 'dream' bike(s) which started with an '83 model then '84, '85, Integra.....well you get the picture, have the last of the line VTR250efi which is a great bike. I line them up like little soldiers in the shed then review the lineup with scotch in hand, sometimes polish but mostly scotch - Johnnie Double Black to be precise. The XR250 line (5 of) is reviewed with beer not scotch as I wouldn't insult them with any sort of refinement and the BSA lineup is reviewed with disdain - something to do with the 26TPI AYC (British Cycle Thread) with 55 Degree included thread angle I suspect! The FE is close to my favorite ride especially when the roads are smooth, 9k+ on the tach and bends are tight but I need to preserve this bike for a few more years hence taking the Spada out of the closet, OH, and I'll need to do the carbs, change the oil, filters, coolant, flush the radiator, pop the covers to do the valves, and remove any rat/mice infestation.
    On reflection life was so much simpler setting points and walking a bit!
     
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    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  20. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Glad you are still enjoying the VT. Still looks great and regretted selling it so much I now have a F2 model on the table.
    Cannot help with the rego problems other than suggest another inspector who actually knows bikes.
     

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